help wiring in MPG handheld pendant to work with mach3

[otpco]

but where ! thanks Doug now we are both at the same place I am still trying for a reply from cnc4pc . I have two pendants and two boards ! this is very frusterating . I am going to try to get Art (Mr Mach involved )

[Art Fenerty]

Hi Guys:

Ive only read through a bit of this thread to see where you might be going wrong. I dont have experience with the cards your using but here is generally how to get such devices working,,

If a device has an encoder. This is always connected via the two pins A & B for the MPG#1. Now Im going to assume MAch3 is running OK.. motors work and such..

To test such a encoder, just set Encoder#1 to the same pins and ports settings
as MPG#1. When you rotate the MPG, you should see it count on the settings screen as encoder X. Thats the fastest way to know if your encoder is working. IF it counts , its OK, if not.. its not wired up right. You need the ground of the power supply deefing the encoder to be connected to the port, or to the breakout board thats supplying the port.

By the most recent letters in the thread, Ill assume you now have a encoder that runs, so when set to MPG #1 , it jogs and such if you use the tab screen to select the axis.

SO now we're on the brains. All Brains do is change thingsd based on what they see. I suspect your using a brain that takes button inputs, and makes the axis seelction toggle based on the pressed button. To test such things can be hairy.. but to make it easier divide the job down to exactly where th eproblem migth lie. Lets say the brain is meant to take the input from a INPUT#1 signal and use it to swap the axis. Check the diags page first, does the LED for INPUT#1 ligth up when you press the button? If not, check wiring..or (more likely) that the pins&ports page has INPUT#1 turned on.. and that its set to the rigth pin and port#. Dont proceed to checking your brains until you KNOW the correct input lights up on the diags page when you press the button. Using the diags page to monitor the inputs allows you to make sure all the hardware is good. The inputs shoudl all ligth up properly when buttons are pressed. Another issue you may have with Brains is they will expect a signal to be On when pressed, or On when no pressed. Hard to say, depends on the brain author. Usually, an author will design it so the LED is on only when the buton is pressed. If yours is on when not pressed, and off when pressed, you probably need to toggle the "Low active" setting for that input.

So now, if all is well, on the diags page you see a LED come on whenever you press a button, and you see the X encoder value change on the settings tab when you rotate the mpg.

If this is all true, your problem then lies with the brain or brains your using. If you can jog motors, then the port is not somethign to worry about. Hoiwever, make sure Pins2-9 as input is checked if this is a second port your using.

I wont go into the brains here, I dont know what Arturo wrote for you, but you can ignore them until your sure things work as above. Encoder, MPG, and input LED monitoring. If all that works, your going to be fine, you just need to figure out what the brains are doing..and why they arent doing it..( if they arent by now. )

At this point then, you should be able to use the MPG using the tab flyout screen, and use the MPG calibrator and see its results.

Art

[arturod]

Art thanks for your suggestions and clarifications, otpco thanks for making me aware of this thread.
I want to encourage to whoever has a problem with one of our products to submit a ticket and we will take care of you: http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/ticket_create.php.
I did not read all this thread but here are my thoughts:
- Use the C22: http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/prod...roducts_id=159. This board serves 3 purposes:
o Power the Pendant. The pendant has an encoder that wants 50mA. The parallel port cannot source that, you need an external power supply. The C22 comes with a USB cable to steal current from a USB port.
o Buffer the signals. The parallel port has very week signals. Especially new ones. We have found ports with 2mA signals. Most people still have in mind the old days when the parallel port could deliver 10mA signals. You need this to provide steady and reliable signals back to the controller.
o Handle E-Stop. You do not want to have Brain handling e-stop. E-Stop should be handled at hardware level. The C22 has a relay that reflects the status of e-stop, so when it is pressed it can disable the hardware. This relay can also be connected in series with other e-stop buttons. Here is a wiring sample that illustrates this: http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/E-STOP_RELAY.pdf. We do send a signal back to the controller to make it aware of the e-stop condition. Remember that all our breakout boards are equipped with an external enable terminal, that idea is that the signal from this relay goes to this terminal. You can also use it to disable other stuff, such as servos, VFDs, etc…

- Parallel Ports. I have used so many different parallel ports, and never had a problem with any of them. I have had a lot of users that had lots of problems with parallel ports and were fixed by replacing the port. I guess it could also have to do with windows device conflict or configuration problem. I you think you have covered all the possible things, and you still have problems, this is something you may consider doing.

- Brains: Art explained it very well. Yesterday I posted a new version of the brains and updated the instructions to make some points clearer. I suggest using the new brains and following new instructions: http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/guide_fo..._over_LPT2.htm. The new brains have several improvements.
o Fixes the runaway problem. Sometimes when the JOG mode was disabled, internally Mach3 keeps on jogging.
o I added a small delay to signals processing to make selection changes smoother.
o A version of the brains to that allows using axis 5 and 6 on 6 axis pendants for Spindle Speed Override and Feedrate Override.

- Configuration steps. Please follow this order in the setup process:
o Check that you see the pins changing states in the diagnostics page when you turn the hand wheel and play with the buttons. This tells you that Mach3 and the pendant are communicating.
o Before enabling the brains, play with the MPG using the JOG menu (TAB key). Use the selections manually, calibrate the MPG, and play with it on different modes. Make sure it moves as you expect it to before messing with the brains.
o Enable the Brains. Keep in mind that the brains are only for handling the buttons and knobs. Keep the following in mind when enabling the brains:
 Make sure that the enable button puts mach3 in MPG jog mode, if does not, you may have a pin configuration problem. Common problems are:
• An input might not be configured.
• Need to change the active low status of the pin.
 Remember to enable only one of the e-stop brains, not both. One has auto-enable and the other one does not.

- One last thing to consider is using the Modbus or PoKeys if you want to add more functions to the pendant, like buttons, knobs, lights, keypads. http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/prod...roducts_id=219, and http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/prod...roducts_id=184.

Arturo Duncan
http://cnc4pc.com

[otpco]

I am having trouble locating the new brains on the cnc4pc site ! anybody been able to get the new brains . thanks mark I will post a whatever they call it and c what turns up and report back .

[2ndSteel]

I have recently received my Pendant, C23, and C22 board from CNC4 and I have been working with it with no success either. I am using this with a Smooth Stepper board and I think this adds to the difficulties. My question is with SS board does the Mach3 Diagnostic page indicate any activity on the SS parallel ports?

It is interesting that I just found this thread as I have been working with this for a couple of days and it is driving me nuts. To many new parts to get talking to each other.

I have downloaded all of the brains, xml file and walked through the install guide. In the SS data monitor I show activity on port 2 pin 15, estop, pin 8 enable, and pins 2 and 3 when I rotate the mpg. No other activity shows up.

I will be following this thread with interest.

[arturod]

Otpco,

Here are the revised instructions: http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/guide_fo..._over_LPT2.htm.

The link to the new brains is on step 6.

Or you can download them from here: http://cnc4pc.com/Files/MPG4_LPT2BrainsV3.zip.

Arturo Duncan
http://cnc4pc.com

[arturod]

2ndSteel,

Yes, the SS works pretty much like regular parallel ports. The instructions are the same. I can see you got the pendant communicating the mach3. You do not see activity on other pins because you need to press the enable button.

This is what I suggest you do:

1. Disable all the brains and hit the TAB key to go to the JOG Menu. Operate the MPG manually using the on-screen buttons. Play with it, get familiar with it, understand how the MPG works on different modes, calibrate the MPG,etc…
2. Remember that the brains are only for automating how the buttons and knobs work. Then:
a. Download a fresh copy of the brains.
b. Erase the brains in the folder.
c. Copy them into the brains folder.
d. Open mach3 and hit “reload all brains”.
e. Enable them, and then test the buttons and knobs.
f. Make sure that hitting the ENABLE button makes mach3 got to MPG jog mode. If this does not work, then check the input pins assign, and the active low status of them.

Arturo Duncan
http://cnc4pc.com

[2ndSteel]

Arturo, thanks for the info. I had missed the fact that you need to hold the enable button while jogging with the pendant. I have things working pretty well in velocity mode. Step mode still does not work like I think it should but I will play with it a bit and get it working.

Now all I need is for my X5 to arrive.

[professionalcnc]

Hi,
I see you told to buy C22.
I have C25 with smoothstepper, do you think it's the same ?
Warm Regards, Federico

[arturod]

Federico,

If connecting a pendant with an e-stop button to a PC based, you need to use the C22, a PoKeys board, or a modbus board.

The C22 provides 3 functions:
- Buffers the signals.
- Powers the pendant.
- Provides an E-Stop relay for hardware disable.

You cannot connect a C22 to an Smooth Stepper if using the C25 board. You may consider using the M2+PoKeys Core or M1+M13 (Modbus). You may also consider upgrading the C25 to a C32 with comes with the circuits of the C22.

You can also upgrade to a C23 and connect the C22 to the C23.

Arturo Duncan
:: CNC4PC :: iNtRo

[Michael82]

Hi Guys:

Ive only read through a bit of this thread to see where you might be going wrong. I dont have experience with the cards your using but here is generally how to get such devices working,,

If a device has an encoder. This is always connected via the two pins A & B for the MPG#1. Now Im going to assume MAch3 is running OK.. motors work and such..

To test such a encoder, just set Encoder#1 to the same pins and ports settings
as MPG#1. When you rotate the MPG, you should see it count on the settings screen as encoder X. Thats the fastest way to know if your encoder is working. IF it counts , its OK, if not.. its not wired up right. You need the ground of the power supply deefing the encoder to be connected to the port, or to the breakout board thats supplying the port.

By the most recent letters in the thread, Ill assume you now have a encoder that runs, so when set to MPG #1 , it jogs and such if you use the tab screen to select the axis.

SO now we're on the brains. All Brains do is change thingsd based on what they see. I suspect your using a brain that takes button inputs, and makes the axis seelction toggle based on the pressed button. To test such things can be hairy.. but to make it easier divide the job down to exactly where th eproblem migth lie. Lets say the brain is meant to take the input from a INPUT#1 signal and use it to swap the axis. Check the diags page first, does the LED for INPUT#1 ligth up when you press the button? If not, check wiring..or (more likely) that the pins&ports page has INPUT#1 turned on.. and that its set to the rigth pin and port#. Dont proceed to checking your brains until you KNOW the correct input lights up on the diags page when you press the button. Using the diags page to monitor the inputs allows you to make sure all the hardware is good. The inputs shoudl all ligth up properly when buttons are pressed. Another issue you may have with Brains is they will expect a signal to be On when pressed, or On when no pressed. Hard to say, depends on the brain author. Usually, an author will design it so the LED is on only when the buton is pressed. If yours is on when not pressed, and off when pressed, you probably need to toggle the "Low active" setting for that input.

So now, if all is well, on the diags page you see a LED come on whenever you press a button, and you see the X encoder value change on the settings tab when you rotate the mpg.

If this is all true, your problem then lies with the brain or brains your using. If you can jog motors, then the port is not somethign to worry about. Hoiwever, make sure Pins2-9 as input is checked if this is a second port your using.

I wont go into the brains here, I dont know what Arturo wrote for you, but you can ignore them until your sure things work as above. Encoder, MPG, and input LED monitoring. If all that works, your going to be fine, you just need to figure out what the brains are doing..and why they arent doing it..( if they arent by now. )

At this point then, you should be able to use the MPG using the tab flyout screen, and use the MPG calibrator and see its results.

Art

Hello art , I have a question I bought a mpg off ebay and I suspect that the encoder in the mpg is bad I thi k the guy sold me a bad encoder is the a sure fire way to test this in mach3 ?? I have an old mpg from a machine at work and I hooked it up and it moves the dros but the selector does not change the axis nor does it change the resolution ( .1,.01,.001) what could that be any help would be appreciated

[arturod]

I have no idea what you have, but as a general rule, there are two independent circuits. The encoder which is basically the handwheel which puts out the quadrature signals, and a set of switches to select the resolution and axis you are selecting for jogging. Note also that there are also different encoder outputs, it can be TTL, open collector, differential or single-ended, etc....

Arturo Duncan
https://cnc4pc.com