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Thread: This machine, AMN-6040-M CNC Router: Mach 3 or Mach 4? (etc)

  1. #13
    Member he1957's Avatar
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    Default Re: This machine, AMN-6040-M CNC Router: Mach 3 or Mach 4? (etc)

    Just a few comments on the machine package in general:

    1. Ask if the spindle speed is continuously variable between their "indicated" RPM speeds of 0-24000. You might find it's actually stepped at specific speeds of say 6000, 9000 etc. Not so desirable for metals. They also don't say (or I missed) the collet chuck size. ER16 or ER25?

    2. They say it's an Ethernet based Mach-X control and that's probably ok but they also show a RichAuto A11 DSP handheld control (on page 11; optional?) This is a great little DSP control but has limitations and does not allow parametric programming which is a bit of a pain.

    3. As Ger21 mentioned, they most likely have a pirated copies of any software they offer so ask for license details

    4. For your stated goals the working X,Y area of 600x400 mm seems a little small, especially if you plan on scaling up. Remember clamps and fixtures subtract from the working/machinable area.

    5. I'd choose servo's over and above steppers (in hindsight). Nothing wrong with steppers BTW - personal preferences :-)

    6. The metalwork sample photos in their PDF file show some nice engravings but no cut part samples?

    If you intend to get the 4th axis, do so and ensure they integrate it into the build and supply all the parts pre-wired etc. This will also subtract from the working area when/if mounted.

    Personally, I'd stay away from Mach altogether. Ask them if they can use the UCCNC (say the AXBB control) and software, can't see why they can't do this.

    As is said, you get what you pay for.

    Best of luck and hoping your project turns out well. A drone that can lift the weight of a car could be well re-purposed to fight the fires we are having "down under" ATM :-)

    A$0.02

    Cheers,



  2. #14
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    Default Re: This machine, AMN-6040-M CNC Router: Mach 3 or Mach 4? (etc)

    Hi Peter,

    Hey thanks for the critical but thoughtful feedback. I definitely need more of this. Please keep it coming. Although I don't agree with everything you're saying, I'm trying to keep an open mind here. So rather than wasting time focusing on the disagreements, I hope you'll take the time to consider the following.

    You're inarguably correct that in strength/weight terms, CF wins. Having built quite a few drones, it's obviously the material of choice for good reason. I also admit that I'm pretty invested in the path I'm on, but I'm trying to keep an open mind despite having a big pile of made parts in the shop ready for assembly once I get past the hub manufacturing cost problem.

    Still, I'm having a hard time visualizing the hub component in CF. However, perhaps a hybrid approach would work? Although I've made a serious effort to optimize geometry dimensions in relation to their relative stress levels in the wing assemblies to optimize strength/weight, I probably haven't sufficiently optimized material choices.

    Perhaps the best of both worlds would work here. Manufacture the truss linkages from prefab CF sheets instead of sheet-metal yet still build machine the hub 'nodes' from metal. I haven't done the calculation (yet) but a large majority of the component volume is in the truss linkages compared to the hubs. So this would definitely shave a lot of weight from the vehicle. I have to admit that I'm still not a fan of hand-layup, and automated layup is likely far beyond my means until I get access to some serious capital. This might split the difference. Metal hubs, metal fasteners, CF truss linkages. I like it. The parts are all CNC-built for manufacturing efficiency, yet even a monkey could assemble it.

    I think an issue is going to be fasteners. Currently I'm relying on high-strength fasteners in slip-critical condition to handle the high stresses involved. The high coefficient of friction of aluminum/aluminum really helps here, aluminum/steel would require basically doubling the fastener count, leading to other problems. My current design uses up to M10 alloy cap screws, and quite a few of them. I seriously doubt CF would handle the load in Mpa terms under these high-strength fasteners under the full-tightness assumptions I'm currently making, but perhaps aluminum inserts installed into the CF links and an increase in fastener count could address that. My guess is that this metal/CF interface might be a challenge, but not problematic.

    Stiffness, and resulting column buckling might also be a problem, but again I have ways of dealing with that, either by reducing the length/width box-section ratio of the linkages or with braces that effectively shorten the column length.

    Lunch is over, I need to go. Thanks again for taking the time for the great feedback. Since this discussion has gone way off-topic, would you prefer to take this discussion elsewhere or offline? I'll PM you my contact info if you're interested. Or we can keep it here if the forum mods allow that.
    DWG



  3. #15
    Member peteeng's Avatar
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    Default Re: This machine, AMN-6040-M CNC Router: Mach 3 or Mach 4? (etc)

    Hi DWG _ hand layup won't work. Get informed about infusion,. You dry stack a mold and then bag it then use the vacuum to draw resin through the dry cloth. Aerospace quality laminates in your garage. CF and glass will perform the same as metal. Done many tests like this. Don't use inserts. Extra work and they have to be perfect width which is impossible. metal/composite done all the time. Just think of the composite as metal and its much simpler.

    Can keep this here we are probably finished until you rethink and jump forward. Peter



  4. #16
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    Default Re: This machine, AMN-6040-M CNC Router: Mach 3 or Mach 4? (etc)

    I'm ordering with Delta B2 750W servo XYZ motors ($1500, ouch!), my understanding is this should kick butt for cutting even steel.

    Not with that spindle. If you want to cut steel, that spindle is the weakest link by a large margin.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  5. #17
    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
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    Default Re: This machine, AMN-6040-M CNC Router: Mach 3 or Mach 4? (etc)

    Looking at the PDF, they're giving you a pirated copy of Aspire, as Aspire itself costs $2000

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  6. #18
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    Default Re: This machine, AMN-6040-M CNC Router: Mach 3 or Mach 4? (etc)

    Thanks for the feedback he'57. I think you exposed a lot of the issues I need to address prior to purchase. Very good stuff.

    Regarding the software, I plan on purchasing either a legitimate license. And thanks for the suggestion, I'll just checked out UCCNC and it looks pretty nice! But truth is that every hardware vendor I've contacted has offered to throw in a copy of Mach3 'free'. It's sad that it's so common.

    On the working area (volume), I'm mostly concerned with the lack of Z clearance / travel. My largest part is pretty big, about 25cm x 28cm x 5.5cm. If I'm going to put it on an A/B table, I expect I'll have to put the gantry up on blocks to get clearance. Even then there will barely have enough Z travel. Not pretty. I'm currently trying to redesign the part for 3-axis.

    Actually when I inquired about going 5-axis, Alpha CNC offered a similar machine with A+B but it looks a lot lighter-duty and probably very well suited for metal. They shared this link.



    Yes, milling wood not metal. But it looks to have better Z-travel so I might go with it if they say it can cut semi-hard metals. They have yet to get back to me on that.

    If you skim around their YouTube videos, it looks like they do cut metal. And make a lot of larger machines. So they appear pretty legitimate (except for the 'free' software issue).

    Ok, thanks again & Cheers!
    DWG



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    Default Re: This machine, AMN-6040-M CNC Router: Mach 3 or Mach 4? (etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    Not with that spindle. If you want to cut steel, that spindle is the weakest link by a large margin.
    Thanks for that, I'm definitely going to check that out better.



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    Default Re: This machine, AMN-6040-M CNC Router: Mach 3 or Mach 4? (etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    Looking at the PDF, they're giving you a pirated copy of Aspire, as Aspire itself costs $2000
    Bleh this isn't good. Looks like I might have unintentionally stirred up a hornets nest. When I looked at their software & motion controller hardware I kind of shrugged and decided I'd probably replace it with better & fully legit stuff. Probably because just about every internet 'cnc router' vendor I've looked (eBay, YouTube, etc) at offers Mach3 for 'free'. That's pretty lame when I think about it...

    Last edited by dwg123; 12-05-2019 at 01:53 AM.


  9. #21
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    Default Re: This machine, AMN-6040-M CNC Router: Mach 3 or Mach 4? (etc)

    HI Pater, Hmm, I'm afraid I'm not seeing it. Too dense I guess, haha. Not seeing vacuum-bagging a space-frame as one piece nor the individual hub parts individually - they're pretty geometrically complex with a lot of fairly thin-well protrusions. I did do a little envelope-math and strength aside, assuming similar material volumes, going to prefab CF links would cut weight by well over 100lbs which is pretty significant. But at the price of about 3x the cost. I need to mull this over for a while, but it sounds like a good idea for the 3rd prototype.

    Ok well thanks for the information, it's been pretty helpful.
    DWG



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