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  1. #61
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    Default Re: Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Easy L1 and N1 is the same going straight through the Filter Ground must be connect to the filter and if it does not have a Ground post on the output side, which it does not need, Ground then connects to the input side of the filter then to the VFD Drive


    so if you see

    L=L1

    N=L2

    PE =Ground

    You don't use or have a Neutral for NA 240v single phase, so don't get it confused with Ground both serve a different purpose
    Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???-filterphoto-jpg

    Just to make sure I don't blow this thing up...

    on the Line side, I connect each hot wire to each terminal on the input side, I connect a ground wire to the ground terminal on the input side.
    on the Load side, I connect one terminal to "R" and the other terminal to "T" on the VFD
    I also connect a ground wire from the INPUT side to the ground terminal on the VFD.

    Assuming everything improves and I mount this thing permanently, does anyone have any suggestions how to insulate the terminal lugs on this thing? I have all other AC connections pretty well covered or shielded so I don't kill myself with an accidental touch. This this has the terminals fully exposed make for an easy shock hazard.

    Chris D



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    Default Re: Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???

    I don't see a terminal for a ground in your picture? But the case is metal and should be mounted on grounded metal. The insulated terminals is where L1 & L2 connect too, the output goes to the input on the VFD. You could use some RTV or the like silicone sealer to insulate.

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    Default Re: Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???

    Thanks for responding so quick!

    The ground terminal is on the input side, I somehow had the camera in perfect alignment so that one of the load terminals covers the Ground terminal.

    Chris D



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    Default Re: Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris D View Post
    Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???-filterphoto-jpg

    Just to make sure I don't blow this thing up...

    on the Line side, I connect each hot wire to each terminal on the input side, I connect a ground wire to the ground terminal on the input side.
    on the Load side, I connect one terminal to "R" and the other terminal to "T" on the VFD
    I also connect a ground wire from the INPUT side to the ground terminal on the VFD.

    Assuming everything improves and I mount this thing permanently, does anyone have any suggestions how to insulate the terminal lugs on this thing? I have all other AC connections pretty well covered or shielded so I don't kill myself with an accidental touch. This this has the terminals fully exposed make for an easy shock hazard.

    Chris D
    Correct you have your wiring figure as it should be , the only easy way to protect your self from a accidental is to put a screen mash cover over it this is quite common to do

    When you do mount the filter, the mounting surface should be free of paint just like anything else that you are Grounding to a metal surface

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???

    Never use metal unless its something like 16 gauge steel to protect terminals, use an insulator of some sort.

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  6. #66
    ericks
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    Default Re: Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???

    I agree....insulating material of some sort. If it were me i would place an acrylic cover over it



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    Default Re: Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    Never use metal unless its something like 16 gauge steel to protect terminals, use an insulator of some sort.
    All machine manufacturers use metal covers like this for anything to do with EMI Protection or when ever they have to cover something like this

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???-dsc_9973-jpg  
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    Default Re: Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    All machine manufacturers use metal covers like this for anything to do with EMI Protection or when ever they have to cover something like this
    The question was about Insulation, not EMI protection. He needs no EMI protection inside a grounded metal enclosure just to add a filter!

    Reposted here > Assuming everything improves and I mount this thing permanently, does anyone have any suggestions how to insulate the terminal lugs on this thing? I have all other AC connections pretty well covered or shielded so I don't kill myself with an accidental touch. This this has the terminals fully exposed make for an easy shock hazard.

    1000x750 Workbee CNC - Mach4 - PMDX USB - Windows 10 Pro


  9. #69
    ericks
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    Default Re: Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???

    This device already has a metal shield...no need to add another. Most important here is to isolate the live parts against accidental touch



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    Default Re: Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    The question was about Insulation, not EMI protection. He needs no EMI protection inside a grounded metal enclosure just to add a filter!

    Reposted here > Assuming everything improves and I mount this thing permanently, does anyone have any suggestions how to insulate the terminal lugs on this thing? I have all other AC connections pretty well covered or shielded so I don't kill myself with an accidental touch. This this has the terminals fully exposed make for an easy shock hazard.
    That's what they use, he choose to buy that type of filter, when you use a filter like this that has spade connections you don't have this problem

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    That's what they use, he choose to buy that type of filter, when you use a filter like this that has spade connections you don't have this problem
    What are you talking about?

    He asked about Insulation for the one he purchased. You posted a picture of a EMI/RFI metal shield.

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    Default Re: Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???

    Quote Originally Posted by ericks View Post
    This device already has a metal shield...no need to add another. Most important here is to isolate the live parts against accidental touch
    This is what is used in all installations like this that have exposed connections like this it is a OSHA electrical safety requirement, this may be slightly different in Australia but they have regulations also for this type of protection requires a screen to be compliant

    GUARDING OF LIVE PARTS ( this is from OSHA safety electrical requirements )

    It should be noted that the purpose of this requirement is to protect any person who may be in the vicinity of electrical equipment against accidental contact. These people are presumably not electricians working on the equipment, and are not qualified or trained to be in close proximity to live parts.

    Except as required or permitted elsewhere in this subpart, live parts of electric equipment operating at 50 volts or more shall be guarded against accidental contact by approved cabinets or other forms of approved enclosures, or by any of the following means:
    By suitable permanent, substantial partitions or screens so arranged that only qualified persons will have access to the space within reach of the live parts. Any openings in such partitions or screens shall be so sized and located that persons are not likely to come into accidental contact with the live parts or to bring conducting objects into contact with them. It is good practice to use covers, screens or partitions which can only be removed by use of tools, so that unqualified persons are less likely to violate them.


    Enjoy I suggest you check Australia's electrical requirement's for this, Hobby electrical requires the same protection as any other electrical installation

    Last edited by mactec54; 05-25-2019 at 09:39 AM. Reason: corrected the word OSHA
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    Default Re: Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    What are you talking about?

    He asked about Insulation for the one he purchased. You posted a picture of a EMI/RFI metal shield.
    Read my next post it is a OSHA Electrical safety requirement Hobby builders are not exempt these requirement's, it has vey little to do with being a EMI shield stop trying to make up something that it is not

    Last edited by mactec54; 05-25-2019 at 09:36 AM. Reason: Name change OSHA
    Mactec54


  14. #74
    ericks
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    Default Re: Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???

    Mac please don't assume you can tell me what i should or should not do....you do not have the qualifications or authority to do that. That is all i will say about this. If you wish to argue about who's right or the best or the biggest or the strongest i suggest you look for someone else. I have neither the time nor patience to deal with you



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    Default Re: Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???

    What he posted and Mac its OHSA not OHS or NEC.


    Except as required or permitted elsewhere in this subpart, live parts of electric equipment operating at 50 volts or more shall be guarded against accidental contact by approved cabinets or other forms of approved enclosures, or by any of the following means:


    Notice in a approved cabinet, which it is.

    Moderators can you close this Thread to prevent more misinformation from being posted?

    Last edited by ger21; 05-25-2019 at 09:26 AM.
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    Default Re: Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    What he posted and Mac its OHSA not OHS or NEC.


    Except as required or permitted elsewhere in this subpart, live parts of electric equipment operating at 50 volts or more shall be guarded against accidental contact by approved cabinets or other forms of approved enclosures, or by any of the following means:


    Notice in a approved cabinet, which it is.

    Moderators can you close this Thread to prevent more misinformation from being posted?
    Here is the full OHSA requirement's, it defiantly is correct, and is not misinformation, so stop pretending that you know different just because you have trouble understanding what the requirements are, sorry about the OSHA name spelling I have corrected it


    What I posted came from there requirments

    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by mactec54; 05-25-2019 at 10:26 AM.
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    Default Re: Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???

    Quote Originally Posted by ericks View Post
    Mac please don't assume you can tell me what i should or should not do....you do not have the qualifications or authority to do that. That is all i will say about this. If you wish to argue about who's right or the best or the biggest or the strongest i suggest you look for someone else. I have neither the time nor patience to deal with you
    You don't have to reply your choice

    It's what you posted not what you do, no one really cares what you do just post what is normal for installation's like this with safety in mind

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???

    If you disagree, state your case and move on. I'll ban anyone that continues to argue. Adults acting like 5 years olds gets really tiring.
    Consider this a final warning.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???

    Update and current status...

    There were two ways I was able to monitor the problem: False triggers of buttons from the operator panel and my Scope. Being that the false triggers appeared to come from the buttons and switches attached to the I-PAC (keyboard emulator), I figured I would connect my scope to that device which is located inside the operator panel.

    Here is a trace that was captured with the spindle running. The spikes were about 3.8 volts as measure on one of the inputs to the I-PAC. With about 30 inputs on the I-PAC, I was getting some really strange things happening.
    Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???-bad-noise-jpg

    Trying to determine if the noise is conducted or radiated, I removed the cable from between the electrical cabinet and the operator panel. The voltage spike is reduced to about 2 volts. Being that, aside from the AC power, there was no mechanical connection and the voltage spikes are still present, I could only assume I had both, conductive and radiated noise. At this level, there were no problems of false triggers and the machine ran fine. Here is the trace showing that.
    Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???-ok-noise-jpg

    From the advice of Mactec, I purchased and installed a line filter. At first I didn't understand how that would even help this problem, but then I realized this device is very similar to a "Reactor" which is used on industrial CNC machines for preventing noise issues. This is the link to the line filter https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1. Once installed, there was an immediate improvement in the noise levels...
    Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???-filter-jpg


    However, the presumably radiated noise was still there. As this did not affect operation of the machine, I wasn't too worried about it.

    I continued to tidy up the wires and prepare to close up the electrical cabinet and the operator panel. I performed one last check with the scope. During my tidy up process, more improvement occurred, unfortunately, I have no idea what changed to remove the radiated noise. I know I pushed all the wires back into the plastic conduit, I recall reattaching the 220VAC ground wire be (from source) and at the line filter and I am sure I did a few more things but can't recall all the details. Here is the trace before I closed everything up..
    Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???-final-jpg

    Knowing that I had a working system at one point, then this noise issue came up, I am not 100% certain the problem isn't fixed. The problem very well could come back again but for now I am a happy camper.

    Here is a photo inside the electrical cabinet just before closing. The Line filter was attached to the 35 Volt power supply, probably not the best thing to do, but currently there are no ill effects and it was a handy place to mount it. As mentioned in an earlier post, I was worried about accidental shocks being that the posts on this thing are fully exposed, I designed and 3D printed a red cover for it so that it would be a bit more safe then being fully exposed.
    Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???-e-cabinet-jpg

    What a nightmare this problem was and to deal with. I am hoping that it is over and I learned a few things along the way.

    Thank you to all of you guys for your help and guidance!

    Chris D



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    Default Re: Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris D View Post
    Update and current status...

    There were two ways I was able to monitor the problem: False triggers of buttons from the operator panel and my Scope. Being that the false triggers appeared to come from the buttons and switches attached to the I-PAC (keyboard emulator), I figured I would connect my scope to that device which is located inside the operator panel.

    Here is a trace that was captured with the spindle running. The spikes were about 3.8 volts as measure on one of the inputs to the I-PAC. With about 30 inputs on the I-PAC, I was getting some really strange things happening.
    Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???-bad-noise-jpg

    Trying to determine if the noise is conducted or radiated, I removed the cable from between the electrical cabinet and the operator panel. The voltage spike is reduced to about 2 volts. Being that, aside from the AC power, there was no mechanical connection and the voltage spikes are still present, I could only assume I had both, conductive and radiated noise. At this level, there were no problems of false triggers and the machine ran fine. Here is the trace showing that.
    Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???-ok-noise-jpg

    From the advice of Mactec, I purchased and installed a line filter. At first I didn't understand how that would even help this problem, but then I realized this device is very similar to a "Reactor" which is used on industrial CNC machines for preventing noise issues. This is the link to the line filter https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1. Once installed, there was an immediate improvement in the noise levels...
    Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???-filter-jpg


    However, the presumably radiated noise was still there. As this did not affect operation of the machine, I wasn't too worried about it.

    I continued to tidy up the wires and prepare to close up the electrical cabinet and the operator panel. I performed one last check with the scope. During my tidy up process, more improvement occurred, unfortunately, I have no idea what changed to remove the radiated noise. I know I pushed all the wires back into the plastic conduit, I recall reattaching the 220VAC ground wire be (from source) and at the line filter and I am sure I did a few more things but can't recall all the details. Here is the trace before I closed everything up..
    Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???-final-jpg

    Knowing that I had a working system at one point, then this noise issue came up, I am not 100% certain the problem isn't fixed. The problem very well could come back again but for now I am a happy camper.

    Here is a photo inside the electrical cabinet just before closing. The Line filter was attached to the 35 Volt power supply, probably not the best thing to do, but currently there are no ill effects and it was a handy place to mount it. As mentioned in an earlier post, I was worried about accidental shocks being that the posts on this thing are fully exposed, I designed and 3D printed a red cover for it so that it would be a bit more safe then being fully exposed.
    Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???-e-cabinet-jpg

    What a nightmare this problem was and to deal with. I am hoping that it is over and I learned a few things along the way.

    Thank you to all of you guys for your help and guidance!

    Chris D
    Most likely had a lot to do with when you reconnected the Ground, glad you where able to see what the Power Filter can do, A power filter is a cheap replacement for a reactor, and can almost do the same job, if everyone that installs a VFD did this it would solve a lot of there problems, Grounding of course is a number 1 problem most of the time, switch mode power supplies can be another source of noise which should have a Power filter also, or any DC Power supply in general, the coils of wire will create a magnetic field around them also, but may not cause to much of a problem as they are away from the Breakout Board area

    Cover looks good and Ideal 3D printers can save the day but if someone does not have one any type of cover material will do the job if a cover is needed for safety

    If your switches are noisy then you may need a cap / snubber across them

    Last edited by mactec54; 05-26-2019 at 08:44 AM.
    Mactec54


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Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???

Mach3 - ESS smooth stepper - Huanyang Chinese VFD - Mach 3 e-stopping???