Power Supply for HBS86H with Nema34

[digdagdigedag]

Hi All,
As input voltage, my HBS86H accepts AC from 20 to 70 Volts, hence as imple transformer should do but I am not sure about the needed power.
The data sheet only mentions peak current of 6A but this must be related to the output, i.e. towards the motor.
Based on my calculation, the peak power should be 5V x 6A = 30 W.
If I connect three controllers in parallel, my transformer should support around 90W, so with 200W I should definitely be on the safe side.
1. Is my assumption and calculation correct ???
2. Can I really put three HBS86H drivers in parallel or could there be some side effects consdering the 'peaky' nature of the power consumption ?
Thanks for your help

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[jalessi]

Dig,

I believe you made a mistake, the voltage should be around 60 volts. The wattage requirement per drive may approach 300 watts.

The power supply requirement is 2/3 the total wattage of the combined total of all drives. IE (3) three drives x 300 watts = 900 watts ÷ 3 x 2 =600 watts

Welcome to the Zone,

Jeff...

[digdagdigedag]

Hello Jeff,
Thanks for your quick response but now I am confused completely. Could you please exlain ?

I understand that the input voltage can be varied between 24V and 70V AC but the voltage at the output, i.e. directly at the motor should be much lower (???)
I found some data showing that depending on the version, the motor voltage may vary from 1.4V to 5.8V and the current from 1.6A to 4.5A. For all combinations, the maximum power should then be 16W per phase and if I multiply by number of phases the total power may go up to 64W. (see calculations below)
The driver HBS86H may not have a perfect efficiency, so I assume that the input power may be a litte higher but in general I can't see how you get values around 300W.
Thanks
Uwe




Here are my calculations based on the data , I found under Nema 34 Stepper Motor|Nema 34 Stepping Motor|86mm Step Motor

V/Phase	A/Phase	W/Phase	# Phases	W Total
1.4	4.5	6.3	4	25.2
5.8	1.6	9.28	2	18.56
2.35	2.5	5.875	2	11.75
3	4	12	4	48
3.6	3	10.8	2	21.6
2.8	4	11.2	2	22.4
4.2	3.5	14.7	4	58.8
4	4	16	4	64

[jalessi]

Uwe,

If you believe the drivers are that efficient and decide to ignore the manufactures stated rating go ahead and use a minuscule power supply, the driver actually provides approximately 20 times the motors rated voltage. After testing your theory please post the results using an insufficient power supply.

Jeff...

[digdagdigedag]

Uwe,

If you believe the drivers are that efficient and decide to ignore the manufactures stated rating go ahead and use a minuscule power supply, the driver actually provides approximately 20 times the motors rated voltage. After testing your theory please post the results using an insufficient power supply.

Jeff...

Hi Jeff,
please don't misunderstand. I am not claiming that my theory is correct. I am just trying to understand the steps of dimensioning everything.
Is there a general rule that actual voltage = 20 times rated voltage ? Why can this factor not be found in thedatasheet ?
Could you recommend some reading material that includes the power calculation of stepper motors ?
Thanks again
Uwe

[jalessi]

See attached links:

The voltage of your power supply is entirely dependent on the inductance rating of your motor, which we learned is translatable to the number of turns of wire in the stator. Every motor model will have a different inductance rating and will therefore have a different maximum voltage. To figure out what the maximum power supply voltage should be, use the following formula with the motor’s inductance in millihenries (mH) used for the L value."

32 *sqroot(L) = VMAX

The voltage rating on the motor has nothing to do with how much voltage you use to drive them. The rating on the motor is how much constant DC voltage can be applied without exceeding the current rating. However the stepper drives are chopper drives, so the DC voltage/current is not constant. Bottom line is ignore the voltage rating on the motor.

https://www.geckodrive.com/gecko/images/cms_files/Step%20Motor%20Basics%20Guide.pdf

Misconceptions about Stepper Motors Explained | Machine Design

Jeff...

[digdagdigedag]

Thanks a lot for all that info.
I just cancelled my order and changed from a 48V/300W to 60V/1000W transformer. This should be sufficient :-)

[lmeb83]

I am using the HBS86H driver. I connected 5V from an Arduino UNO to PUL + and DIR +. And it works fine. The spec sheet of the HBS86H says VCC is compatible with 5V or 24V, so I tried use a 12 V - 1A power supply instead of the Arduino, and it doesn't work. Any ideas on what can be happening?

[digdagdigedag]

Hello Imeb83,
Not really sure what you are trying to do.
The original question of this thread was about the main power supply that is needed to match the consumption of the stepper motors.

The inputs PUL+ and DIR+ hardly draw any current as they only feed the input to the HBS86H's opto coppler. So with respect to the power supply, PU+ and DIR+ should not be critical at all.
Can you share your circuit diagram (before and after using power from Arduino)
BR
Uwe

[lmeb83]

Hello digdagdigedag,
I am attaching the diagrams.

[Leadshine]

How do you connect this 12V to the pulse and direction signal? whether there is correct pulse signal output to the drive.

[Leadshine]

Hi Digdagdigedag, thank you for helping us.
YES, we need to know how LMEB83 connects this 12v power supply signal as a pulse/direction signal input. It is likely that the single-ended signal input is incorrect.

[digdagdigedag]

Hi Leadshine and Lmeb83,

Sorry for my late reply.

I myself am using the Acorn CnC Controller from Centroid and I am following the wiring proposed on their Website (https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_diy/acorn_cnc_controller.html).
They have different wiring diagrams for different driver modules including Leadshine.
As can be found in the diagram, my inputs PUL+, DIR+ and ENA+ are actually connected to +5V which is why my case can not be compared with Lmeb83's case.

I have not tested with 12 V but if the Arduino outputs are open collector outputs (could not find anything about that in Arduino docu), the wiring (LMEB83) should work fine. If however, the output voltage of the Arduino Pin is around 5V, then the problem is clear. The voltage drop over the leadshine inputs would be 12V - 5V = 7V and hence it would still be interpreted as a low signal.

Did you actually measure the voltage at PUL-, DIR- and ENA- for both Arduino Low and High ????

I see two solutions, 1.) Change the voltage for PUL+, DIR+ and ENA+ back to 5 Volt or 2.) use a transistor to convert the Arduino signal to an open collector output.

Again, PUL+ and DIR+ do not really consume a significant amoount of power, which is why I do not see a need for 12V, 1A. The real power consumption comes into play for the AC Pins.

Hope this helps.
Uwe

[Leadshine]

Hi Digdagdigedag,
Thank you for sharing us the experience on using Centroid controller and drive connection. Your comments are appropriate and reasonable.

Actually, the logic signal current (pulse/dir/ena) is quite small no more than 16mA, usually we recommend our customers to use 5v differential signal. For 12v or 24v control, sometimes it needs to add resistor to limit current (1k for 12v, 2k for 24v), also depends on different drive models.

HBS drive is designed for domestic market only in CHINA, we have special overseas models for overseas market Leadshine has an official office in LA so they can buy our product at AMT - American Motion Technology LLC, thank you again for your help.