K2CNC/MACH3 stops in middle of job


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Thread: K2CNC/MACH3 stops in middle of job

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    Default K2CNC/MACH3 stops in middle of job

    K2CNC (4x2) running Mach3 will stop in the middle of a job. It is very random. The spindle is still running but all travel stops. The g-code is still scrolling with the x, y, z still updating in the Mach3 window. Checked all the connections and it is not hitting a limit switch. Any ideas on how to troubleshoot this?

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    Default Re: K2CNC/MACH3 stops in middle of job

    Maybe you use the Demo version of mach3



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    Default Re: K2CNC/MACH3 stops in middle of job

    Thanks for the thought, but it is a full licensed version of MACH3



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    Default Re: K2CNC/MACH3 stops in middle of job

    lumenire,
    I have seen this same issue. The problem is you are getting EMI noise in your system and that disconnects the PC from Kflop, so all motions stops. The root cause is normally the fact you need shielded cables and a star ground. Another common issue is the USB link. If you get a USB isolation module that keeps the PC separated from noise coming from KFLOP and the spindle. If you check the Dynomotion sites you will see several people had this issue and our various solutions to address these issues. You can fix them.

    Russ



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    Default Re: K2CNC/MACH3 stops in middle of job

    Thanks Russ,
    So the aluminum frame is grounded to the Servo Controller, and I believe the K2 has shielded Cat5 cables. What I am noticing after I read up a bit on what you were saying is that the X Servo Motor is making a little noise when idle and when I wiggle the cable it trips the Servo Controller fault light. I am wondering if the connection is a bit faulty?

    I certainly can get the USB isolation mod. I am assuming that goes between the PC and the USB cable running to the Servo Controller.



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    Default Re: K2CNC/MACH3 stops in middle of job

    The first thing I would try is to take a standard Ethernet cable and replace the one that you can wiggle and get it to fault. This will tell you if the cable is indeed defective. Spindle noise and VFD noise generate what is called EMI noise. These can cause all kinds of interruptions to the CNC software and cards. The USB isolator uses DC/DC isolation so there is no ground or signal that connects to the PC directly, think of an optical isolator same concept. The other thing to check is to make sure all the power cables AC power and also Servo power stay away from the encoder cables.

    Russ




    Here is a USB isolator, this plugs into the PC, and then the KFLOP plugs in the other side.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Full-speed-...0AAOSwtRxZ0ThF



    Quote Originally Posted by lumenire View Post
    Thanks Russ,
    So the aluminum frame is grounded to the Servo Controller, and I believe the K2 has shielded Cat5 cables. What I am noticing after I read up a bit on what you were saying is that the X Servo Motor is making a little noise when idle and when I wiggle the cable it trips the Servo Controller fault light. I am wondering if the connection is a bit faulty?

    I certainly can get the USB isolation mod. I am assuming that goes between the PC and the USB cable running to the Servo Controller.




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    Default Re: K2CNC/MACH3 stops in middle of job

    I am looking at this usb connection and I suspect this is not carrying any data. It comes out of the pc as a regular usb connection, but connects to the servo controller as a single post electrical connector. Since I don't have a manual for the unit it is tough to tell exactly what its purpose is. (As you can tell I new at the troubleshooting end of owning a CNC)

    So all the ac power for the router and the power to the servo motors all run down the drag chain with the encoder cables. I did make sure I don't have a rats nest of wires around the servo controller and keeping the ac power away from any data cables.

    Today it did something it never did before. It stopped and then a few seconds later it started up again.

    Thanks for your time and help.



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    Default Re: K2CNC/MACH3 stops in middle of job

    Yes it is common to have all the cables run in energy chains to keep things neat. When this is done the cables need to be shielded. I bet if you run the program for an air cut with the spindle off it does not stop. What kind of spindle and VFD do you have. Post some pictures

    Russ



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    Default Re: K2CNC/MACH3 stops in middle of job

    Ah, used the wrong term in my early post when I said "spindle". My K2 (which has the issue) has a porter-cable router, the other machine I use an Axiom has a liquid cooled spindle. Sorry for the confusion.

    I actually did try an air cut with the router off and it ran fine, but I have seen the issue with the router off and just jogging the position. There are days I can run 3 or 4 jobs with no problem and then there are days where it will stop every time I try to run a job.

    Nothing special about the router setup. The power cord runs over the top and into chain. The servo motors have all the wires tied together, and there is the image of the connections on the K2 controller. I check all the earth grounds and the computer, monitor, controller, frame all have an earth ground. Now the router chassis is grounded to the CNC frame by metal to metal contact, but the AC power cord is only a two prong cord so there is no earth ground in the cable and that is the one that runs down the drag chain. The only other thing is I have 4 cooling fans that run in the cabinet that houses the computer and servo controller. They can either run off a usb port of the computer or off an ac adapter. Tried it both ways.

    Russ, thanks again for all your help. Have a great holiday.

    Bob



    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails K2CNC/MACH3 stops in middle of job-fans-jpg   K2CNC/MACH3 stops in middle of job-k2_servo_motors-jpg   K2CNC/MACH3 stops in middle of job-k2_router-jpg   K2CNC/MACH3 stops in middle of job-k2-servo-controller-jpg  



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    Default Re: K2CNC/MACH3 stops in middle of job

    Bob,
    Your issue is the AC power cord going to the Porter Cable router. AC power can impact control signals especially encoder signals even in shielded cables. You can often address this by opening up the router disconnecting the power cord and sliding a copper braided shield over the power cord and keep the end about 8" longer than the cable and attach a lug and ground that on the AC source end. This works great and is not very costly. The braided shield is kind of like Chinese handcuffs. I usually slide it on and put a piece of heat shrink over it on the two ends of the cable to ensure it says put. You will see a huge difference after you take this step.

    Russ


    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tubular-Bra...BYWnX3&vxp=mtr



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    Default Re: K2CNC/MACH3 stops in middle of job

    Russ,

    Thanks! I will order that today. Just have to figure out how to shield this connection point. I may have enough length on the AC cord to get this past the end of the drag chain. This connection goes into a small control box that also is only a 2 prong connection so I will shield that also. I will update once it is all in place.

    Bob


    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails K2CNC/MACH3 stops in middle of job-p1070609-jpg  


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    Default Re: K2CNC/MACH3 stops in middle of job

    Also I think I will need 3/8" rather than 1/4". Measured the cable and it is bigger than 1/4" diameter.



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    Default Re: K2CNC/MACH3 stops in middle of job

    Keep in mind the flexible shield can can be push closer together so it actually opens up more than a quarter but that reduces the length. You might want to get a couple sizes this stuff is cheap and works great. Here is a photo of my control box prior to getting all the shielding in place.

    K2CNC/MACH3 stops in middle of job-img_1914-jpg

    Here is another photo with the shielding in place. Even the Black cables are all shielded just internal shielding. When you string the cable through you can open the flexible screen and exit the wires and then pull on the shield mesh and leave about 8" pig tail that you can attach to a ground. Also on the area where you have the plug going into an extension order a foot of the 1-3/8" braided shield and it will cover that area and just tie strap the ends of the shields on the other cables and that will ground the entire run. This is what I did with larger servo connectors.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails K2CNC/MACH3 stops in middle of job-img_1935-jpg  


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    Default Re: K2CNC/MACH3 stops in middle of job

    Russ,

    Looks like you shield just about everything. On my K2 the 24V DC power cables to the servos don't look shielded and they are running along side the data cables. That is they way it came. Should they have shielding? That might be a bit more work since I would have to take off the spade connectors.



    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails K2CNC/MACH3 stops in middle of job-k2_servo_motors-jpg  


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    Default Re: K2CNC/MACH3 stops in middle of job

    No you do not need to shield the DC power connections to the servos. Keep in mind the DC power is quiet and not oscillating like AC power. Those are fine, the AC cable to the spindle is clearly problematic. In my case I have AC Servo drives sending three phase AC power to the servo motors these can cause noise, if the encoders are carefully shielded then some people leave the AC power to the servos without shields. Trust me shielding most things will make your experience running your machine much more predictable. In your case you can actually run a simple test hang that AC cable up in the air with some string keeping it away from the other signals and I think you will quickly find out your machine will work fine.

    Russ



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    Default Re: K2CNC/MACH3 stops in middle of job

    Thanks again. I really appreciate the time you have taken to respond to my questions.

    Bob



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    Default Re: K2CNC/MACH3 stops in middle of job

    Quote Originally Posted by lumenire View Post
    Thanks again. I really appreciate the time you have taken to respond to my questions.

    Bob

    Bob,
    No problem, trust me I have been where you are in the past and it can drive you crazy trying to figure out these type issues. I also installed EMI filters for incoming power, I have even used Ferrite Cores which also help. EMI can drive you insane.
    Russ



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    Default Re: K2CNC/MACH3 stops in middle of job

    Russ,

    Thought maybe we found the issue, but after installing the braided shield on the router power cable and grounding it, the machine ran for a good 30 minutes and then up and stopped. I had to power everything off and then back on just to get it to respond. Still scratching my head on this issue. Thinking about getting a power strip with EMI filters.

    Bob



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    Default Re: K2CNC/MACH3 stops in middle of job

    Bob,
    There are two additional items that can help tame EMI interference. The first is Ferrite Cores, you wind the cables at the very end through these donuts they work magic. They come in various sizes make sure you get them so you can get the cable connectors through the holes so you do not have to re-solder anything.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Uxcell-a120...EAAOSwiKlZvrvf

    The second is an EMI filter for incoming power. I actually use a few of these myself. On the incoming power to the VFD and the incoming power on the power supply for the controller. You just run the AC in one side and take filter power out the other side. These are highly recommend by all the control manufacturers.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/AC250V-20A-...QAAOSwUKxYhxwc

    K2CNC/MACH3 stops in middle of job-20141222_100827-jpg

    Russ



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    Default Re: K2CNC/MACH3 stops in middle of job

    Thanks!

    Do you think this EMI/Surge protection would do the same thing as the EMI filter?

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000513US...6ITAUI2P&psc=1

    Also is it possible that I am getting a false e-stop signal either from some EMI interference or other trigger?



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