Hurco KMB-1m Retrofit

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Thread: Hurco KMB-1m Retrofit

  1. #1
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    Default Hurco KMB-1m Retrofit

    I'll preface this thread by saying I'm very new to CNC machining, retrofitting, etc. I had the opportunity to purchase both a KMB-1m and an SM1 CNC about a half a mile from my house. I don't have room for both so I decided to part out the SM1 as it's was older and had more wear than the KMB. Fortunately I was able to get the control/electrical cabinets, servo motors, and small mechanical pieces from it. The KMB1 came with a manual including electrical & mechanical drawings so that will come in handy. Although I can't find it anywhere on the machine, a receipt from the previous owner states that it was manufactured around 1985. It also came with a bunch of collets and tool holders and has a Kwik 200.

    My plan is to retrofit the KMB1 and use with either Mach3 or LinuxCNC. I currently have a Little Machine Shop 3900 running with LinuxCNC and it seems to work well. I have several projects that could use the larger capabilities of the Hurco so I'll use both. Looking at Viper 200 (or new 250?) or CNC Drive's DG4S-16035 drivers, US Digital encoders, and PMDX components so far. The original Litton encoders have some issue and is why the machine wasn't being used.

    Next steps are to gut the cabinets, determine the state of the servo motors, and get the retrofit started. Looking to get any advice on components to use as well as share information. There's a lot to learn for me so this will be an interesting experience and welcome any input.

    Thanks!

    Hurco KMB-1m Retrofit-img_8874-jpg
    Hurco KMB-1m Retrofit-img_8875-jpg
    Hurco KMB-1m Retrofit-img_8876-jpg
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  2. #2
    Member FannBlade's Avatar
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    Nice! Looking forward to the updates.



  3. #3

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    Oops. Double post.

    Last edited by Bob La Londe; 01-19-2014 at 11:51 AM.
    Bob La Londe
    http://www.YumaBassMan.com


  4. #4

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    I converted mine with a USB Smoothstepper, C23, Gecko 320X, and USD6-1000.

    I think if I did it again I might choose different components.

    If I stayed with Mach3 I'ld probaby use another Smoothstepper, but I would go with the ethernet one. Now that I know more there are a number of reasons why the Ethernet SS would be better. If I went with LinuxCNC I'ld look at the Mesa cards. Maybe a 7i25. The 5i25 has enough, but I have found myself wishing I had more with my SS.

    The C23 is a fair breakout board with onboard 0-10 control, but its pricey and has had some public detractors. I had to fix a couple cold solders on mine. Also, the 0-10v speed controller is hard to adjust. I have a PMDx-126 and their plugin speed control for my next build.

    I spent quite a lot of time tweaking the G320X servo drives. I mean days not hours. I tried using their oscilliscope method, but never figured out how to get clean signals I could see to make adjustments. Maybe just because I was using a very old HeathKit scope. I would definitely try the Viper-200 now that Larken has his own tuning software for the servo drivers. I wound up using the by guess and by gosh method to tune the Gecko drivers. In spite of their comments they didn't "just work" with the out of the box settings. Larkens Viper 200 also has higher voltage and current limits. I unwound the 60V transformer so when I ran it though my bridge rectifier I would get peak voltage lower then the 80VDC max the Gecko drivers are rated for. I think I could get better speed (at 90V instead of 78.8) and better acceleration without faulting (higher peak current) with the Vipers. I do think acceleration of the table takes more power than constant speed at even very heavy cutting loads. The table and saddle are easily over a 1000 pounds. I don't know off hand if the Larkin drivers have more diagnostic ability or not, but the Geckos definitely do not tell you why when they fault.

    The 1000 line USD6 is overkill. I know other people who went with the USD5 encoders. The much cheaper encoder Gecko recommends to go with their drivers does not have a 1/2 bushing to fit the back shaft on those big Electrocraft servo motors. Also, 1000 lines sounds awesome at 20000 pulse per inch, but its overkill and I think the extra overhead was one of my limiting factors for speed. I think I would use 500 line encoders on a similar direct drive build in the future. On the other hand I do get accuracy and repeatability better than it says in the manual. That something considering my machine is an early 80s build and shows definite signs of use.

    Bob La Londe
    http://www.YumaBassMan.com


  5. #5

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    Oh, and can I say WOW! I mean freaking WOW!

    Did you get all those tool holders with the machine? Used EBAY price on the most common sizes is $59+shipping. The odd smaller sizes like 3/16, 1/4, 5/16 run $79-$99 usually, and everything else like collet holders, face mill arbors, jacobs chucks etc tends to run $119 and up. Those are used prices. The one guy (Tools-N-Gizmos) who has new tool holders for those tends to start at about 89 for the most common stuff and go up. Collis also still makes a compatible tool holder new. Its called a Rapid Switch 200 or RS-200. They sell on Ebay and one their own website. Pricey, but very good stuff.

    You easily have a few thousand dollars worth of tool holders there. My machine came with a drill chuck, two holders, and an AF collet holder.

    Bob La Londe
    http://www.YumaBassMan.com


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    Thanks for the info! I looked through your build thread and there is a wealth info there. I'll look into the Mesa cards. I'm not too sure on which direction to go with the software but Mach isn't expensive it seems.



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    Well dang!! All of the tool holders came with it. I had no idea on the costs of these. Not sure I can possibly make use of all them!

    Someone made the mount for holding the tool while loosening/tightening with the spanner.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bob La Londe View Post
    Oh, and can I say WOW! I mean freaking WOW!

    Did you get all those tool holders with the machine? Used EBAY price on the most common sizes is $59+shipping. The odd smaller sizes like 3/16, 1/4, 5/16 run $79-$99 usually, and everything else like collet holders, face mill arbors, jacobs chucks etc tends to run $119 and up. Those are used prices. The one guy (Tools-N-Gizmos) who has new tool holders for those tends to start at about 89 for the most common stuff and go up. Collis also still makes a compatible tool holder new. Its called a Rapid Switch 200 or RS-200. They sell on Ebay and one their own website. Pricey, but very good stuff.

    You easily have a few thousand dollars worth of tool holders there. My machine came with a drill chuck, two holders, and an AF collet holder.
    Hurco KMB-1m Retrofit-img_8892-jpg
    Hurco KMB-1m Retrofit-img_8894-jpg



  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krell33 View Post
    Thanks for the info! I looked through your build thread and there is a wealth info there. I'll look into the Mesa cards. I'm not too sure on which direction to go with the software but Mach isn't expensive it seems.
    I tried to post everything I learned along the way in my build thread. To pass it forward so to speak. I would point out that there were a few things I posted in my build thread that were not entirely accurate or in a few cases outright wrong. I always tried to go back and add corrections when I discovered my mistakes, but due to the limited time to edit a post some of my original gaffes are still there.

    Bob La Londe
    http://www.YumaBassMan.com


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    DeckelHead's Avatar
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    Incorrect thread... sorry!



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    Default Re: Hurco KMB-1m Retrofit

    Well after a very long hiatus and a move across several states I'm finally working on this retrofit again. I had to remove the motor to clear the garage door as part of the move but otherwise the machine survived. Looking at a recommendation on a VFD. Also I had planned to re-use the 90V section of the power supply to drive the servos. Are there any thoughts on a newer power supply? I originally purchased two of these machines and scrapped one keeping the servos and other extra parts.

    Dan
    Hurco KMB-1m Retrofit-image1-jpgHurco KMB-1m Retrofit-image2-jpg

    Last edited by Krell33; 01-30-2018 at 07:03 PM.


  11. #11

    Default Re: Hurco KMB-1m Retrofit

    I see you went with the DuGong drives. That's what I replaced My G320x drives with when I finally gave up on them. I think you will be happy with them.

    I hope you didn't throw everything away when you were scrapping out. In mine there was a 230-60V transformer I used to make my own power supply. I paired it with a couple big capacitors and a 100 amp bridge rectifier. It easily handles those three DuGong drives.

    Bob La Londe
    http://www.YumaBassMan.com


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    Default Re: Hurco KMB-1m Retrofit

    Bob,

    I did keep everything including the extremely heavy transformers, circuit boards, servos, etc. I also still have the plethora of tool holders. I think I'm gonna go with a Teco 3HP VFD with brake resistor and order that shortly. I had originally planned for Mach 3 but now Mach 4 is available. Need to update my plan and get things moving again.

    Thanks!

    Dan



  13. #13

    Default Re: Hurco KMB-1m Retrofit

    Keep us posted on Mach 4. I am still using Mach 3 (on 5 machines) so an upgrade would be somewhat costly for five new license.

    Bob La Londe
    http://www.YumaBassMan.com


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    Default Re: Hurco KMB-1m Retrofit

    Will do. Just received my VFD today and hopefully soon I'll be able to test all of this out.

    Thanks!



  15. #15

    Default Re: Hurco KMB-1m Retrofit

    Just looked at your pictures. Did you get three surge suppressor boards? You only need one per power supply. Not one per drive. All three of those drives should run off of one power supply.

    The big transformers off the back are for lines voltage. On mine they were all foamed in making it hard to tell what was what. I didn't use any of those. Just 110V and 230 straight thru the disconnect switch.

    Keep all those tool holders. Well unless you want to give them to me. At first you may not use more than a couple, but if you do a lot of work you will find that it really helps to have an assortment of common tools all loaded up and ready to go.

    Bob La Londe
    http://www.YumaBassMan.com


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    Default Re: Hurco KMB-1m Retrofit

    Those are braking circuits for the DG drives. I bought them with the drives as they were recommended at higher voltages.

    I have more tool holders than I'll ever need. I put them in a spreadsheet to keep count. If you're looking for some let me know.

    Dan



  17. #17

    Default Re: Hurco KMB-1m Retrofit

    Start going through the connection on those braking circuits. It keeps them from getting over voltage from back driving when the mill is decelerating. I have just one installed across the power supply that drives all three drives. Once I started looking at how it was hooked up it didn't make sense to have one for each drive. Its one per power supply. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so.

    Bob La Londe
    http://www.YumaBassMan.com


  18. #18
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    Default Re: Hurco KMB-1m Retrofit

    I know this is an older post but I am currently starting to do basically the same exact retrofit to my Hurco Kmb-1. Have you completed your build yet? If so are you happy with the DG drives?



  19. #19

    Default Re: Hurco KMB-1m Retrofit

    I'm pretty happy with the DG drives. I'm not as thrilled with the C32 BOB insptie of its claimed "plug and play" connections. For one thing the spindle control was jacked up.

    Bob La Londe
    http://www.YumaBassMan.com


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