URGENT HELP NEEDED! HEIDENHAIN 24V DC EXT RELAY MISSING

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Thread: URGENT HELP NEEDED! HEIDENHAIN 24V DC EXT RELAY MISSING

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    Member Robshaw92's Avatar
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    Default URGENT HELP NEEDED! HEIDENHAIN 24V DC EXT RELAY MISSING

    Hi there,

    I recently started working for a company manufacturing components for the electrical industry, they have two CNC machine centres (both of which I have never heard of the brand). One of them is dead, and has been for a while, I've been working alongside an electronic engineer to try and get the old girl back up and running.

    Its a Quantum S1500D with Anilam controls. (Heidenhain)

    I've had multiple technicians out to check it over but no prevail - hence the electronic engineer...

    The problem we're having is that we're receiving the fault code: "24V DC EXT. VOLTAGE MISSING"

    All emergency stops and limit switches have been checked and are working, using the very limited wiring diagrams that we have we can see that the machine goes through a few steps before allowing you to power up the servo.

    We have had the computer control checked/replaced, servo unit checked/replaced.

    What else could this be? We're in too deep and it seems a shame to call it quits and deem the machine dead forever.

    Any help is appreciated!

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    Default Re: URGENT HELP NEEDED! HEIDENHAIN 24V DC EXT RELAY MISSING

    Seems to me (from what you have written) that you have been checking everything EXCEPT the external 24 VDC power supply.

    Cheers
    Roger



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    Default Re: URGENT HELP NEEDED! HEIDENHAIN 24V DC EXT RELAY MISSING

    Quote Originally Posted by RCaffin View Post
    Seems to me (from what you have written) that you have been checking everything EXCEPT the external 24 VDC power supply.

    Cheers
    Roger
    Hi Roger,

    Sorry I should have mentioned that we had done simple power supply checks - tracing the route of the 24V power and it seems to continue correctly up to where we can possibly trace it to.

    The electronic engineer removed the servo unit to take it for testing at his factory and managed to get it to boot up fine with a simple rig that he set up. The servo unit has a series of LEDs and turns green and allows you to power up the servo once it has received a signal from the control that the "control is ready". This control going through a series of checks before it proceeds in allowing the servos to be powered up. The first step in this series is the emergency stop circuit - this includes limit switches and the emergency stop buttons - all which we have checked and are fine. We managed to purchase a second control from the US and after trying this we still receive the same error so it has to be a wiring/bad relay issue or something somewhere...

    The main problem being is that you can get the same error code for the emg stop circuit being open and get the same error code for voltage issues. Our next point of call is checking the encoders on the servos themselves...

    We're really out of ideas now



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    Default Re: URGENT HELP NEEDED! HEIDENHAIN 24V DC EXT RELAY MISSING

    I do not know the Heidenhain systems at all, but I do wonder: what is the point of checking the servo systems when the error message points to either the power supplies or the eStop circuit? But I do not know your system.

    Cheers
    Roger



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    Default Re: URGENT HELP NEEDED! HEIDENHAIN 24V DC EXT RELAY MISSING

    I've just seen something about 'low lube level' causing this error too.
    I assume you have manuals. I don't know if these are any good to you or remotely the same thing?
    https://www.heidenhain.com/en_US/software/



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    Default Re: URGENT HELP NEEDED! HEIDENHAIN 24V DC EXT RELAY MISSING

    Check X44



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    Default Re: URGENT HELP NEEDED! HEIDENHAIN 24V DC EXT RELAY MISSING

    Hi,

    My experience begins with the Heidenhain TNC355. I apologize in advance if my suggestions do not help.

    The message "24V DC EXT. VOLTAGE MISSING" is the most standard message when the Heidenhain controls boot up. It basically means the machine ON button needs to be pressed. At times the button is not clearly labelled in older machines.

    If the machine ON button is not causing a change, check the emergency stop and machine ON circuit.

    Normally there are two Feed backs going to the machine PLC- one is that the machine ON button has been pressed, and the other is a hold relay type situation from the machine ON circuit to confirm that the systems are online and no interlocks are causing the lockout. These interlocks are normally in the form of contactors or relays or safety relays to check primary machine functions (such as drive fail). If the supply to the machine ON switch is OK, there would be a change in the message to some other error if there is an issue with the machine, else it will change to passover reference which would work with the cycle start button.

    The fact that your display is ON and control is ON shows your basic 24V DC circuit is OK, but the control ON activation circuit is not working.

    If you are not sure of the Machine ON button, please post a photo of the control panel here and we might be able to help.

    best regards

    Jaideep



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    Default Re: URGENT HELP NEEDED! HEIDENHAIN 24V DC EXT RELAY MISSING

    Hi,
    Don't know if you have resolved the problem yet or not. My experience is with a TNC 151 on a Bport. Every time I power up my machine I get the "24V DC EXT VOLTAGE MISSING ALARM" This is normal for my machine. To clear the alarm on the TNC 151 you have to press the "CE" (clear error) button on the TNC 151. The error the goes away and I can press the yellow push button to fire up the machine. Your layout is probably completely different.

    Also, as mentioned, my machine has a one shot oiler that uses Vactra #2 oil. If the oil in the reservoir is low that also triggers the 24V alarm.

    May machine has 2 emergency stop buttons and both of those will also trigger the 24V alarm.

    Hope some of this may be helpful.

    Les



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    Default Re: URGENT HELP NEEDED! HEIDENHAIN 24V DC EXT RELAY MISSING

    We have a DMU 60T that has a TNC530 Heidenhain control and it has the same startup procedure as Les_S described above. Alarm shows on startup, press CE to clear it, and the power the drives with the yellow lamp button. Maybe check the physical button of the CE? A few of the buttons on our control have worn and become finicky, they need to be pressed very hard or in the right place. .



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    Default Re: URGENT HELP NEEDED! HEIDENHAIN 24V DC EXT RELAY MISSING

    Hi all,

    Sorry for the very late reply, the machine fault finding has been seized for now as we came to another dead end. We went through to check the power output from the encoders and found that 5V was missing on one of the outputs from the drive unit ( the only 1 out of the 3 that we didnt replace) the electronic engineer that I was working with said that he wasnt certain that this drive is the cause of the error, due to these parts not being readily available and cost of repair already being over budget... we ended our mission.

    Unforunately this machine does have a "CE button" so theres no way to override the error, all that I know is, we replaced the main drive, the pc unit and checked all the E-Stop circuit. It didnt help that the wiring diagram we had for the machine didnt 100% match our version of the Quantum... So its looking like its going to the scrappers...



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    Default Re: URGENT HELP NEEDED! HEIDENHAIN 24V DC EXT RELAY MISSING

    Hey, don't scrap it! There lots of good stuff there still.
    Be creative: offer it at a very low price to someone (a hobbyist) who can replace the electronics.

    Or be a bit innovative. It doesn't go right now, does it? You have nothing to lose.
    So advertise for a hobbyist who can upgrade it to something like Mach4. Yeah, it might cost you a few $k, but not as much as buying a new machine.
    You could even offer it to a hobbyist with the option to buy it back if he can make it go.

    Cheers
    Roger
    PS: not me: I am in Australia.



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    Quote Originally Posted by RCaffin View Post
    Hey, don't scrap it! There lots of good stuff there still.
    Be creative: offer it at a very low price to someone (a hobbyist) who can replace the electronics.

    Or be a bit innovative. It doesn't go right now, does it? You have nothing to lose.
    So advertise for a hobbyist who can upgrade it to something like Mach4. Yeah, it might cost you a few $k, but not as much as buying a new machine.
    You could even offer it to a hobbyist with the option to buy it back if he can make it go.

    Cheers
    Roger
    PS: not me: I am in Australia.
    Very very late reply, Im sorry about that.

    I ended up leaving the company and started at a new place that run Okumas.

    I too live in Australia, im still in touch with my old employer should you know anyone that wants a broken machine. Ive considered taking it on myself and fitting a new system to it but due to the bad wiring diagrams it looks like a headache (taiwanese wiring diagrams that dont 100% relate to the wiring on the machine...)



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    Default Re: URGENT HELP NEEDED! HEIDENHAIN 24V DC EXT RELAY MISSING

    Without good doco for the existing electronics, fixing whatever is the matter is extremely difficult. A bit of an exercise in frustration in fact. Add to this the likelihood that the available techos are probably not all that qualified or experienced.

    I had a similar problem, and ended up ripping everything out and replacing it ALL. OK, I kept the big main power transformer, the cooling fan, and the motor/encoders on the axes. I even replaced a lot of the power and signal cabling. To be sure, that cost a bit, but the system now works very well and I have FULL doco for every bit of the machine.

    What does your former employer want to do with the machine?

    Cheers
    Roger
    Sydney



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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RCaffin View Post
    Without good doco for the existing electronics, fixing whatever is the matter is extremely difficult. A bit of an exercise in frustration in fact. Add to this the likelihood that the available techos are probably not all that qualified or experienced.

    I had a similar problem, and ended up ripping everything out and replacing it ALL. OK, I kept the big main power transformer, the cooling fan, and the motor/encoders on the axes. I even replaced a lot of the power and signal cabling. To be sure, that cost a bit, but the system now works very well and I have FULL doco for every bit of the machine.

    What does your former employer want to do with the machine?

    Cheers
    Roger
    Sydney
    Im not sure what he intends to do with it. Its been broken nearly two years now, all i know is it goes through a specific circuit during power up and we trialled and errored each avenue. Although the last avenue was vague due to the wiring diagram. So yeah, like you said - it wants stripping down to basics and starting again



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    Default Re: URGENT HELP NEEDED! HEIDENHAIN 24V DC EXT RELAY MISSING

    it wants stripping down to basics and starting again
    AND documenting fully. Time and again I have had to go back to the doco I created to sort out a problem.

    So, question: has the owner tried to get current doco from the manufacturer? I mean, REALLY hassled?
    One can be creative when hassling: perhaps an expression of interest in another machine (no more than that), but only if the doco for the first can be provided. Presented as a matter of 'support'.

    Cheers
    Roger



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    Default Re: URGENT HELP NEEDED! HEIDENHAIN 24V DC EXT RELAY MISSING

    Where abouts in Oz is it?

    Regards Bob


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