Need Help! Haas VMC Spindle Bearings


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Thread: Haas VMC Spindle Bearings

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    Default Haas VMC Spindle Bearings

    I have a Haas VF3YT50. The spindle has a growling noise and feel coming from it. Does any have an exploded view of the spindle cartridge or good information about the spindle. It appears my bearings are bad and I am having difficulties getting good support from my HFO. Is there a good after market rebuilder for these spindles?

    Thanks for your help....

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    Before you rebuild the spindle just want to let you know that my noisy, growling spindle was cured by replacing the MOCON board.



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    Thanks for the info Nakedanvil. I have removed the belt from the spindle and the noise is still there. That should eliminate every thing electronic.
    Thanks again,



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    Quote Originally Posted by RodneyH View Post
    Thanks for the info Nakedanvil. I have removed the belt from the spindle and the noise is still there. That should eliminate every thing electronic.
    Thanks again,
    Wouldn't that also eliminate your spindle as the source of the problem?



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    I have taken that spindle apart and when I print it I will post a internal breakdown with bearing numbers.



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    Default Spindle issues

    Our '93 VF3 just died with a spindle failure. Running almost nothing but aluminum for all its life and without any new noises or change to finish, the spindle just slowed and stopped. We've disconnected the transmission and the spindle will turn with some persuasion but cogs. Our Haas guy tells us we need to spend the $4200 + another $1000 for installation. After being beat up badly by the economy - this isn't an expense we need right now. If you come up with a DIY for this or come up with another link - PLEASE post it.



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    Quote Originally Posted by CLACKENALONG View Post
    Our '93 VF3 just died with a spindle failure. Running almost nothing but aluminum for all its life and without any new noises or change to finish, the spindle just slowed and stopped. We've disconnected the transmission and the spindle will turn with some persuasion but cogs. Our Haas guy tells us we need to spend the $4200 + another $1000 for installation. After being beat up badly by the economy - this isn't an expense we need right now. If you come up with a DIY for this or come up with another link - PLEASE post it.
    The good news is it won't be $4200. You get half that credited back to you when they take the old one with them.



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    Quote Originally Posted by RodneyH View Post
    I have a Haas VF3YT50. The spindle has a growling noise and feel coming from it. Does any have an exploded view of the spindle cartridge or good information about the spindle. It appears my bearings are bad and I am having difficulties getting good support from my HFO. Is there a good after market rebuilder for these spindles?

    Thanks for your help....
    Hello,

    I am Yogesh, from Capital Engg, India,
    There are various reasons for noise in the spindle:

    a) Bearings are gone
    b) Bearing seats (where bearings are mounted may be sleeve or shaft) are gone.
    c) Spindle shaft is unbalance.

    Haas Spindles are Shrink fitted, so it is very difficult for one to dismantle and change the bearings of your own.

    You may let us knw the dimensions of the spindle, and we can manufacture spindle exactly same as it was the original, in very low prices. you can Email the drawing or dimensions of the spindle at cec@sify.com, and we will send the Offer



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    Default VF3 Spindle rebuild

    After removing the spindle and reading all the posts, we've decided to have the spindle rebuilt and returned ready to install. A former Haas tech connected us with a place in So. Cal. that will charge $2200 including 6-mo warranty, which is a good deal less $$$ than what I've found other places. I'll post a follow-up - good or bad - after we have the machine running again.
    btw Cory: actual price from authorized Haas is around $4500 (they keep the core) and no warranty unless they install - another $700+/-. This is not too bad in normal times, but $3000 is a pretty important savings these days.



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    Quote Originally Posted by CLACKENALONG View Post
    After removing the spindle and reading all the posts, we've decided to have the spindle rebuilt and returned ready to install. A former Haas tech connected us with a place in So. Cal. that will charge $2200 including 6-mo warranty, which is a good deal less $$$ than what I've found other places. I'll post a follow-up - good or bad - after we have the machine running again.
    btw Cory: actual price from authorized Haas is around $4500 (they keep the core) and no warranty unless they install - another $700+/-. This is not too bad in normal times, but $3000 is a pretty important savings these days.
    I've had my gearbox replaced twice and both times they deduct 50% of the cost of the new part when they take the old one with them. They told me the same applies to spindles as well.



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    If you change out your spindle you may need to "Burn It In" you will also need to check for tram. I could locate our "Burn" program if you would like.

    Clarklake Machine, Inc. - Precision Machining and Assembles
    http://ClarklakeMachine.com - 517.529.9454


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    What are you refering to when you say "burn it in". Is this a long gentle acceleration to warm up the spindle, or something aggressive (like it sounds)?



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    Yes it's less like a "burn in" and more like a "run in"

    Really, all it is going to accomplish is to expell excess oil from the spindle, give you an idea of the rate of temperature rise of the spindle (which tells you how well the preload is set but there is nothing you can do about it without a tear-down), and it may help the top floating bearing find its equilibrium position in the housing (via expansion) so that it stops pushing against the main bearings if it happened to be a bit on the tight side in the housing fit.

    The run-in is not going to cause significant wearing of the balls or races so as to loosen their preload until many millions of revolutions have occurred.

    This is 100% my opinion.

    First you get good, then you get fast. Then grouchiness sets in.

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    This is common sense. If anyone out there invests in a new spindle, installs it, and lays the whip to it right out of the box, you are on your own. C.M.I.'s reply makes it seem like a "run in" is necessary like on a cam lobe or a piston ring "break in" sequence. Proper lubrication and a bearings thermal cycle are things that todays "digital machinists" don't seem to have much emphasis on.



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    Thank you for pointing out that the operation is called "Run-In". The term burn in was used by the service tech the first time we had had a spindle changed. I do apologize for this error and will try not to let it happen again.

    Here are some quotes from the service manual:
    All spindles must go through a run-in cycle at the time of machine installation prior to operating the spindle at
    speeds above 1,000 RPM.
    New spindles tend to run much warmer than spindles that have already been run-in. In order to run a valid test
    on a new spindle, ensure that it is properly run-in.


    Clarklake Machine, Inc. - Precision Machining and Assembles
    http://ClarklakeMachine.com - 517.529.9454


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    Haas has a run in program & a warm up program.

    The run in program should always be run if the machine has been sitting for a while, as there will be to much oil in the bearings & will cause over heating.

    The warm up program should be run every day before cutting a part.

    Mactec54


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    heres the warm up program

    %
    O02020 (Spindle Warm-up)
    (This program should be run prior to)
    (machine use if machine has been idle)
    (for more than 4 days.)
    (Cycle time: 20-minutes.)
    (This program can be used for all)
    (spindle types and may be used daily)
    (for spindle warm-up prior to high)
    (speed spindle use. Adjust spindle)
    (speed override depending on maximum)
    (spindle speed of machine: Set)
    (override at 50% for 5,000 rpm)
    (machines, set at 100% for 7,500)
    (& 10,000 rpm machines, and set at)
    (150% for 15,000 rpm machines.)
    (9-21-99)
    S500 M03
    G04 P200.
    S1000 M03
    G04 P200.
    S2500 M03
    G04 P200.
    S5000 M03
    G04 P200.
    S7500 M03
    G04 P200.
    S10000 M03
    G04 P200.
    M30
    %
    burn in program for 12k spindles

    O12346 (SPINDLE BREAK IN 12K)
    N100 S300 M03
    G04 P900.
    M05
    G04 P900.
    N200 S1000 M03
    G04 P900.
    M05
    G04 P900.
    N300 S2000 M03
    G04 P900.
    M05
    G04 P900.
    G04 P900.
    N400 S3000 M03
    G04 P900.
    M05
    G04 P900.
    G04 P900.
    N500 S4000 M03
    G04 P900.
    M05
    G04 P900.
    G04 P900.
    N600 S5000 M03
    G04 P900.
    M05
    G04 P900.
    G04 P900.
    N700 S6000 M03
    G04 P900.
    M05
    G04 P900.
    G04 P900.
    N800 S7000 M03
    G04 P900.
    M05
    G04 P900.
    G04 P900.
    N900 S8000 M03
    G04 P900.
    M05
    G04 P900.
    G04 P900.
    N1000 S9000 M03
    G04 P900.
    M05
    G04 P900.
    G04 P900.
    N1100 S10000 M03
    G04 P900.
    M05
    G04 P900.
    G04 P900.
    N1200 S11000 M03
    G04 P900.
    M05
    G04 P900.
    G04 P900.
    M00
    N1300 S12000 M03
    G04 P900.
    M05
    G04 P900.
    G04 P900.
    M99
    %
    %
    O02021 (Spindle Run-in)
    (This Program must be run prior to)
    (machine use at time of machine)
    (installation. Cycle time: 2 hours.)
    (This program can be used for all)
    (spindle types. Adjust spindle speed)
    (override depending on maximum)
    (spindle speed of machine: Set)
    (override at 50% for 5,000 rpm)
    (machines, set at 100% for 7,500)
    (& 10,000 rpm machines, and set at)
    (150% for 15,000 rpm machines.)
    (9-21-99)
    N100
    S750 M03
    G04 P600.
    S2500 M03
    G04 P600.
    S5000 M03
    G04 P900.
    N200
    M97 P1000 L15
    M97 P2000 L15

    M30

    N1000
    S7500 M03
    G04 P30.
    S500 M03
    G04 P150.
    M99

    N2000
    S10000 M03
    G04 P30.
    S500 M03
    G04 P150.
    M99
    %




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    Oh yeah the burn in for the 12k spindle I think was 9-10 hours



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    Default HELP!!! Rebuilt spindle installed - tools don't release.

    Thanks for the run-in program. The newly rebuilt spindle is now installed in our 93 VF-3. We've run the "run-in" program and the spindle sounds good with no significant rise in temperature during the 2 hour cycle.
    Now we have a new problem - tool holders don't release correctly. The best we've been able to determine is that the retaining balls in the drawbar are overly pressurized by the release air. With the drawbar removed, the balls move freely and with it installed, you can reach up and confirm this. When tool release is actuated, there seems to be enough air pressure behind the tool holder retaining balls in the drawbar that they aren't allowed to move away and sometimes require a bit of shaking to break the tool loose. Luckily, we caught this before attempting to use the ATC, because it would definitely have damaged it.
    Does anyone have any idea what would cause this? Is there a seal or something in the spindle that may incorrectly divert the air keeping excessive loading on the retaining balls? We've never experienced this problem until the spindle was rebuilt.



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    might want to check the exhaust stone ( I think they had stones back then) if they get clogged the will not release the pressure like there suppose to. Iv'e run into this problem on my collet closers on the lathes.
    but if you didnt have the problem before the spindle was replaced more then likely you put something together wrong, even though its pretty hard to screw up sliding a cartridge spindle in.

    you could have also got some gunk in the air lines or a chip?

    BTW 2 hours doesnt sound like a proper break in



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