Need Help! Question on measuring runout. Getting high TIR from Techniks holders


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Thread: Question on measuring runout. Getting high TIR from Techniks holders

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    Default Question on measuring runout. Getting high TIR from Techniks holders

    I got a used, but in very nice shape, 2018 Haas CM-1 (small office mill) with some Techniks ISO-20 ER16 holders. These holders are about $200/ea, so I figured I'd try out a $70 eBay Chinese holder to see how it compared. The eBay special was not bad (about 0.00025" TIR measured on the inside of the ER16 taper). Then I measured some of my fancy Techniks holders and was shocked to see them read between 0.0005" and 0.001"! They all read about the same, measured on the inside of the ER16 taper, so I don't think they have been abused. Runout on these is supposed to be under a tenth, which makes me think I'm doing something wrong. Rotating them 90 degrees in the spindle changes the TIR between 0.0005" and 0.001, but when I check an empty spindle, it reads pretty much perfect (less than a tenth). I can't believe that all my holders can be this bad, but the eBay Chinese special reads pretty good, so I'm stumped. I also cleaned all the tapers with no change in results. Are Technik's specs BS?
    I added some videos of the measurements if anyone is interested.





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    Default Re: Question on measuring runout. Getting high TIR from Techniks holders

    Quote Originally Posted by lens42 View Post
    I got a used, but in very nice shape, 2018 Haas CM-1 (small office mill) with some Techniks ISO-20 ER16 holders. These holders are about $200/ea, so I figured I'd try out a $70 eBay Chinese holder to see how it compared. The eBay special was not bad (about 0.00025" TIR measured on the inside of the ER16 taper). Then I measured some of my fancy Techniks holders and was shocked to see them read between 0.0005" and 0.001"! They all read about the same, measured on the inside of the ER16 taper, so I don't think they have been abused. Runout on these is supposed to be under a tenth, which makes me think I'm doing something wrong. Rotating them 90 degrees in the spindle changes the TIR between 0.0005" and 0.001, but when I check an empty spindle, it reads pretty much perfect (less than a tenth). I can't believe that all my holders can be this bad, but the eBay Chinese special reads pretty good, so I'm stumped. I also cleaned all the tapers with no change in results. Are Technik's specs BS?
    I added some videos of the measurements if anyone is interested.
    No Technik tool holders are normally good but they to have different grade tool holders you can get from them, you get what you pay for, the tool holders you have are not there tenth holders, unless they have been crashed which is possible, you can sometimes get lucky with Chinese tooling which have improved over the years

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Question on measuring runout. Getting high TIR from Techniks holders

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    No Technik tool holders are normally good but they to have different grade tool holders you can get from them, you get what you pay for, the tool holders you have are not there tenth holders, unless they have been crashed which is possible, you can sometimes get lucky with Chinese tooling which have improved over the years
    Thanks for the reply. What I have are 16000-2016M, which according to Techniks, are for Hass compact and office mills and are spec'd at 0.0001" TIR. I can't find any Techniks ISO 20 holders that are spec'd worse than 0.0001". A crash would make sense if one or two were bad, but it seems unlikely that all 5 that that I have checked have been crashed.

    Question on measuring runout. Getting high TIR from Techniks holders-screenshot-2020-12-08-163310-png

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Question on measuring runout. Getting high TIR from Techniks holders-screenshot-2020-12-08-163310-png  


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    Default Re: Question on measuring runout. Getting high TIR from Techniks holders

    Quote Originally Posted by lens42 View Post
    Thanks for the reply. What I have are 16000-2016M, which according to Techniks, are for Hass compact and office mills and are spec'd at 0.0001" TIR. I can't find any Techniks ISO 20 holders that are spec'd worse than 0.0001". A crash would make sense if one or two were bad, but it seems unlikely that all 5 that that I have checked have been crashed.

    Question on measuring runout. Getting high TIR from Techniks holders-screenshot-2020-12-08-163310-png
    You would have to do a bluing test to see if the tool holder is fitting in the spindle correctly it may have a problem around the pull stud area and down about 3/4" they swell in this area and don't allow the toolholder to fit in the spindle correctly so something to check

    It does sound like they are fitting in the spindle precisely everything has to be prefect to get .0001" or better with any tool holder, how old are the tool holders if well used then you can forget it and buy some new ones

    Test them also with a collet and gauge pin and the nut with the correct torque applied

    Contact Technik's and see what they say

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Question on measuring runout. Getting high TIR from Techniks holders

    My first check on a used machine would be the spindle taper . A bit of prussian blue sprayed on a new or newer holder should show any marks in the spindle taper . A tiny chip that is mashed into the taper can easily throw things off a bit



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    Default Re: Question on measuring runout. Getting high TIR from Techniks holders

    Hi Lens,
    I just got a CM-1. Can you send me a link on the Chinese holders you bought? I bought one, but it had the wrong size pull stud so the spindle won't pick it up. I'm having a hard time finding the Techniks ones and they're big $. I still need about 6 or 7 so I'd like to get some cheapos for the roughing end mills.
    Thanks!
    Aaron



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    Default Re: Question on measuring runout. Getting high TIR from Techniks holders

    Quote Originally Posted by lostinacrowd View Post
    Hi Lens,
    I just got a CM-1. Can you send me a link on the Chinese holders you bought? I bought one, but it had the wrong size pull stud so the spindle won't pick it up. I'm having a hard time finding the Techniks ones and they're big $. I still need about 6 or 7 so I'd like to get some cheapos for the roughing end mills.
    Thanks!
    Aaron
    Sorry for the many month delay. I don’t seem to get notifications

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-M8-ISO2...-127632-2357-0


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



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Question on measuring runout. Getting high TIR from Techniks holders

Question on measuring runout. Getting high TIR from Techniks holders