Haas Rotary Castings


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    Default Haas Rotary Castings

    Looking for information about the castings of older Haas rotaries. The early HRT7/HRT9/HRT160/HRT210 models.( the earlier Black and White bodied ones )

    I want to drill into the casting and install some threaded holes in strategic areas and would like to know if I have to disassemble the whole thing to do so, or if I can get away with my plan without doing so and not getting chips in the works.

    I know the bodies were/are castings, and machined to accept the Worm Wheel/Worm Gear, bearings, bits, baubles, and platter, but am not sure just how far they went in doing so. Are the corner areas still largely solid? If so, by how much?

    Searching for some time now has revealed no real information, so I'm wondering if some brave soul here ever pulled one apart and might have pictures from the endeavor.

    Thanks.

    The closest I have come is this video ( of a newer HRT210 ) at 54 seconds in, but still really doesn't show much of what I seek.



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    Default Re: Haas Rotary Castings

    Wow. No one here has ever been inside their HRT? Kind of surprised about that. I'll post pics if we decide to disassemble it.



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    Default Re: Haas Rotary Castings

    I am willing to bet most just send them into the HFO to get serviced. I've only had the brake off of mine.

    I'd imagine it's pretty meaty except for where the worm shaft goes through.



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    Default Re: Haas Rotary Castings

    Quote Originally Posted by JFettig View Post
    I am willing to bet most just send them into the HFO to get serviced. I've only had the brake off of mine.
    I'd imagine it's pretty meaty except for where the worm shaft goes through.
    Thank you for your response. I am guessing that you might be correct.
    Just seems a bit remarkably odd to me on a group so rife with so many keen on bodging and buggering what they have.

    Part of my concern/interest is because the Worm shaft is indeed nearby the area that I wish to install the threaded holes.
    Ideally, they would be in the four corners of the face that the Worm is installed through.

    Thanks.



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    Default Re: Haas Rotary Castings

    Maybe state what you are trying to accomplish and you may get a solution that you have not thought of that doesn't require changes to the casting?



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    Quote Originally Posted by maxspongebob View Post
    Maybe state what you are trying to accomplish and you may get a solution that you have not thought of that doesn't require changes to the casting?
    I really don’t know how much more clear one can be about what I seek to do than what I wrote in the original post. What part is not clear? Thanks.



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    Default Re: Haas Rotary Castings

    Quote Originally Posted by Zahnrad Kopf View Post
    What part is not clear? Thanks.
    You fancy drilling a few holes in a HAAS Rotary? and tap them?? weird stuff man... why not just stop at the material shop and grab a stock of steel for that purpose. If you really 'need' it to be casting then local scrap yard should have a few there. Why on earth would one want to pick on a HAAS rotary to drill a few holes and tap for...



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    Default Re: Haas Rotary Castings

    A Haas HRT-210 might be a bit more pricey than many readers are used to or able to afford.

    Cheers



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    Default Re: Haas Rotary Castings

    I'm afraid I don't have an answer for you... but... have you asked your Haas rep/technician? Just based on what I've seen watching youtube videos, etc... they seem to be fairly approachable?



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    Default Re: Haas Rotary Castings

    Quote Originally Posted by __Britt View Post
    I'm afraid I don't have an answer for you... but... have you asked your Haas rep/technician? Just based on what I've seen watching youtube videos, etc... they seem to be fairly approachable?
    Thank you. Yes. I'm actually friends with a few and they never go inside them. They just box them up and send them to the mother ship for service.

    Quote Originally Posted by RCaffin View Post
    A Haas HRT-210 might be a bit more pricey than many readers are used to or able to afford.
    Cheers
    You are likely on the right train of thought, with that. I'm probably expecting much from the crowd, in general. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mecanix View Post
    You fancy drilling a few holes in a HAAS Rotary? and tap them?? weird stuff man... why not just stop at the material shop and grab a stock of steel for that purpose. If you really 'need' it to be casting then local scrap yard should have a few there. Why on earth would one want to pick on a HAAS rotary to drill a few holes and tap for...
    I don't expect most people to understand the "why". I simply thought it would be easier to get an answer to the question posed.

    Since it seems impossible to evoke an answer without giving a complete history and background I'll oblige - We're turning an HRT into a TRT. We have all the other bits already. One cannot purchase the mount so it is being made, here. In order to attach it, there needs be threaded holes. I simply wish to attempt to determine if it is possible to drill and thread some holes at the corner areas of that face without breaking into the casting cavity and introducing chips into the Worm Wheel & Worm Gear. ( much less, causing an opportunity to coat the shop & machine surroundings with gear oil afterwards for the leaks that would follow )

    Clear as mud? Does that help answering the original question? If you need more information, let me know. Thanks.



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    Default Re: Haas Rotary Castings

    Quote Originally Posted by Zahnrad Kopf View Post
    I don't expect most people to understand the "why". I simply thought it would be easier to get an answer to the question posed.
    I've noticed quite a few members being quite creative, some with rather exceptional skill-sets I'd like to add. In most cases they are here to genuinely learn and work with others mitigating their impediment(s); yours appearing to be unable to x-ray a casting. Given your circumstances we just wanted to know what was your end goal to see if together we could have worked out an alternative solution that doesn't require modifications or potential destruction of your HAAS Rot.

    Fwiw; you cannot drill, tap, or torque/attach additional components onto/into the enclosure of a precision spec'ed device if not engineered to accommodate it at the first place. Full of gear oil or not. Best to contact your local HAAS rep and to seek sound advice. Good luck with your upcoming tilting set-up, sounds good!



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    Default Re: Haas Rotary Castings

    Quote Originally Posted by Mecanix View Post
    Fwiw; you cannot drill, tap, or torque/attach additional components onto/into the enclosure of a precision spec'ed device if not engineered to accommodate it at the first place. Full of gear oil or not. Best to contact your local HAAS rep and to seek sound advice. Good luck with your upcoming tilting set-up, sounds good!
    I appreciate the input, and intend no slight with the following. In all seriousness, thinking that the local Haas representative would be anything other than folly and wasted time and effort is in itself, folly. Haas has a long and storied history of abandoning customers. Most especially ones seeking assistance with older items. ( be they accessories or machinery ) The advice you will receive is that it is impossible, but they will happily sell you a new unit. So, thank you, but no thank you.

    Further, my own life is chock full of people telling me I cannot do one thing or another. And no shortage of those, being after the fact and said concern having already been done. So you will excuse me if I disregard and remain unbelieving of any secret difference between the castings of an older HRT and TRT. Have you ever actually examined them? It's fairly obvious if one does. The differences are an adapting mount, the holes we are installing, and the superfluous aesthetic cable cover. Nothing more. Nothing less.

    Just ONE case in point - according to Haas, it is not possible to install probing on one of our machines. But they would happily upgrade the control and sell us an additional probing package. All for the sum of $20,000.00, with a discount mind you. I went ahead, purchased the bits, and installed the probing and tool setting ourselves. All for the tune of < $1,000.00. That effort was well documented when it happened, over on Practical Machinist. In the intervening time, I have helped more than 10 others accomplish the same for themselves. So... yeah... ummm... I'll pass, thankyouverymuch.

    For the record - I've already done this with the 5C indexer. ( years ago, already ) I'm simply wanting to have a larger, more rigid platform for an upcoming job.

    Onward...



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    Default Re: Haas Rotary Castings

    You need to worry about clearances and tolerances of those moving components internally (gears, races/bearings, seals, shafts, sensors, etc). Compromising those casting structurally, torquing and hanging stuff on precision components' enclosures isn't the engineer's first choice, normally. So don't expect anyone (HAAS included) to give you a bright green light on that idea. However if there is really no other solution that comes to mind, by all means stab the thing and tap it to your liking (its yours).

    I feel ya about that vendor's need for selling NEW & Expensive thingy. Been there done that each and every-time I needed proprietary 'add-ons' for the bigger shop. A device with any-precision-anything is always +20k, and that extra and mandatory control license add-on to drive it is most likely +2k. Just never stops. Being at the mercy of those automation manufacturers isn't new, get used to it ;-)

    Have fun!



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    Default Re: Haas Rotary Castings

    Quote Originally Posted by Mecanix View Post
    You need to worry about clearances and tolerances of those moving components internally (gears, races/bearings, seals, shafts, sensors, etc). Compromising those casting structurally, torquing and hanging stuff on precision components' enclosures isn't the engineer's first choice, normally. So don't expect anyone (HAAS included) to give you a bright green light on that idea. However if there is really no other solution that comes to mind, by all means stab the thing and tap it to your liking (its yours).

    I feel ya about that vendor's need for selling NEW & Expensive thingy. Been there done that each and every-time I needed proprietary 'add-ons' for the bigger shop. A device with any-precision-anything is always +20k, and that extra and mandatory control license add-on to drive it is most likely +2k. Just never stops. Being at the mercy of those automation manufacturers isn't new, get used to it ;-)

    Have fun!
    I know you mean well, and have good intentions, so I thank you for the well wishes and warnings for those things inside needing consideration. Not my first rodeo, though, and we've been doing this for a fair time. Fair enough to say that I'm capable enough to make our own replacements, if I wished to. Thank you for the input. It really is appreciated.

    https://www.TheGearMaker.com
    http://Instagram.com/AmericanMachineAndGear





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    Default Re: Haas Rotary Castings

    Um... I haven't seen your planned setup, obviously, so forgive me if this is not helpful... but... have you considered clamping it in place instead of bolting to new holes? You would want to make sure you weren't flexing the casting with the clamping pressure, of course; and it's obviously not as compact as direct bolting... but... it might be an option???

    Alternatively... how about high strength, high rigidity adhesive, probably a steel or glass filled epoxy? If there is enough surface area, it might be strong & rigid enough for the application?



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    Default Re: Haas Rotary Castings

    Nice company and portfolio man, congrats. I know who to get in touch with for custom-made gears now. Thanks for the heads up.
    (automotive sector here, mfg for oem (co-own'ed machine floor). Also run and own a product line... personal, small qty, also automotive, which is ran from a home shop).

    Keep'ing busy. Tc!



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    Default Re: Haas Rotary Castings

    Quote Originally Posted by __Britt View Post
    Um... I haven't seen your planned setup, obviously, so forgive me if this is not helpful... but... have you considered clamping it in place instead of bolting to new holes? You would want to make sure you weren't flexing the casting with the clamping pressure, of course; and it's obviously not as compact as direct bolting... but... it might be an option???

    Alternatively... how about high strength, high rigidity adhesive, probably a steel or glass filled epoxy? If there is enough surface area, it might be strong & rigid enough for the application?
    __Britt, thanks. Sadly, no. Needs be steel, and we'll likely be using Cast Iron, as well. Worth the money, time, and effort.

    This is the end game -









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    Default Re: Haas Rotary Castings

    Don't forget the post processor's logic before putting this together i.e. ensure both your control and cam will be able to deal with vectors/transformation/tooltip/etc before investing money & time in this.

    G'luck. Keep us updated on the progress.



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    Default

    wow! that looks great guys!



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    Default Re: Haas Rotary Castings

    Quote Originally Posted by Mecanix View Post
    Don't forget the post processor's logic before putting this together i.e. ensure both your control and cam will be able to deal with vectors/transformation/tooltip/etc before investing money & time in this.
    Not a concern. Thank you. From one of my previous responses in this thread -

    Quote Originally Posted by Zahnrad Kopf View Post
    For the record - I've already done this with the 5C indexer. ( years ago, already ) I'm simply wanting to have a larger, more rigid platform for an upcoming job.





    Quote Originally Posted by Mecanix View Post
    Nice company and portfolio man, congrats. I know who to get in touch with for custom-made gears now. Thanks for the heads up.
    (automotive sector here, mfg for oem (co-own'ed machine floor). Also run and own a product line... personal, small qty, also automotive, which is ran from a home shop).
    Keep'ing busy. Tc!
    Thanks. Didn't mean for that to convey as an advert. Just illustrating that the concerns were of little import, for us. One of our most recent accomplishments that I am VERY proud of is the ability to make our own gear cutting tooling. This was spurred by the excessive costs and lead times associated with Gear Shaper Cutters and just another example of everyone warning that we "... can't do that." What's really beautiful about it is not only being able to manufacture our own tooling for ANY type of Pitch and Pressure Angle desired ( including Asymmetrical Tooth Forms ), but also bone stock, standard tooling as well. This means that when another shop has to pay large dollars and wait 12 - 16 weeks for a STANDARD cutter, we have the ability to make the tooling in one single day and at a reduced cost, making us not only more nimble, but also more economical.

    ... but it's not possible...



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