Haas Vs Doosan

[rustyh]

Hello,

Wasn't sure where to post this, feel wrong asking about Doosan in a Haas forum ????

I am looking at a new VMC and am torn between the Haas VF4-SS or the Doosan DNM 6700.

I was wondering what you guys thought?
Having learnt on a Haas, I am very familiar with the Haas controller, but I am happy to learn the Fanuc controller if needed, and we never really do on matchine programming, it's all via CAM.

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[coffeetek]

I have not used Doosan Mill but I do have Doosan Lynx lathe and Haas Mini Mill. The biggest problem with Doosan is the memory size, look very closely into that. Haas ships with 1GB of memory standard. Doosan ships with like 512kb and it can only be expanded to something like 2MB at pretty steep cost. I can tell you that I have easily reached limit on my live tooling lathe. For mill I would never buy Doosan for this reason alone, some of my programs for mill easily push over 1MB.

Then Fanuc is just antiquated POS where you need instructional manual to just copy the file from the network. Its convoluted and uses UI that is at least 20 years old. Haas is like from the future compared to that.

Haas does have bugs in software, its not completely stable though, but it works and its very easy to use.

[z369]

So, let me get this straight...you can purchase a $150k plus machine, but you can't afford a memory upgrade? Besides, you're comparing a lathe to a mill. Look up the specs on a comparable model lathe like an ST20 and the differences become quite obvious. Our HAAS mill/lathes are only10 yrs old and it can't do editing/program jumping on the fly, whereas FANUC controls have been able to do this for like...ever. If you know how to program, you wouldn't even NEED all that memory to begin with anyways. They're BOTH great machines FOR WHAT THEY ARE. You shouldn't be storing that many programs in your control anyways as it's just asking for trouble. The ONLY programs that should be in the control are protected macro's and the program you are RUNNING.

[coffeetek]

So, let me get this straight...you can purchase a $150k plus machine, but you can't afford a memory upgrade? Besides, you're comparing a lathe to a mill. Look up the specs on a comparable model lathe like an ST20 and the differences become quite obvious. Our HAAS mill/lathes are only10 yrs old and it can't do editing/program jumping on the fly, whereas FANUC controls have been able to do this for like...ever. If you know how to program, you wouldn't even NEED all that memory to begin with anyways. They're BOTH great machines FOR WHAT THEY ARE. You shouldn't be storing that many programs in your control anyways as it's just asking for trouble. The ONLY programs that should be in the control are protected macro's and the program you are RUNNING.

Lay off coffee dude. If you are doing 3D contouring and stuff you can easily get programs that are over 2MB, what then? Then you start jumping through the hoops. On my live tooling lathe I had single program which went just over the memory limit and lathe programs are much smaller than mill programs.

I posted this as something for him to consider before making decision. If you are coming from Haas world then memory is not a concern. In Fanuc world, memory is of very big concern.

[z369]

Lay off coffee dude. If you are doing 3D contouring and stuff you can easily get programs that are over 2MB, what then? Then you start jumping through the hoops. On my live tooling lathe I had single program which went just over the memory limit and lathe programs are much smaller than mill programs.

I posted this as something for him to consider before making decision. If you are coming from Haas world then memory is not a concern. In Fanuc world, memory is of very big concern.

You should take your own advice. I've done high speed machining on a FANUC lathe myself, never had a problem with memory and nothing a GOTO/WHILE and DO macro command didn't solve which ain't all that hard. Besides, there's probably a Best Buy a 5 minute drive from you that sells memory cards, you can walk out of there with 64 gigs for $30.
I also posted as something he should consider, none of which you responded to appropriately. What good is 1gb of memory trying to run a HSM toolpath at 340IPM when the machine itself can't perform the machining (stuttering and breaking tools)?
What good is all that memory when you select a program that has been stored in the control for literally 2 years and some dope put a block delete in it only to crash?

[D.D.Machine]

I have a 2014 VF4SS and "HAD" a Doosan dnm5700


The Doosan was a heavier machine and was vary nice after you got it setup and running ,, but the Fanuc MF control is a joke … its not user friendly at all ,, every thing you want to do is 4 or 5 buttons away and cant even run a program from the USB stick …


Well the Doosan was a nice machine the support for it was just not there ,,, After close to a year of trying to get it fixes the dealer took it back and well I would not call my self a Haas boy I ordered a new vf2ss to replace it ,,, Bottom line is the Doosan was a better machine but at the end of the day I need a machine that makes me parts.

FYI
The vf2ss is a more ridged machine than the vf4ss and is a way nicer size to work with ,,, I only run the vf4ss for big 4th axis parts in that the bigger table and more Z is really nice. but for my go to machines its the vf2ss …

I have only had the latest vf2ss for a couple weeks but it looks like they have fixed the next gen control and well a few things have been moved around its just as nice as the old control once you spend a couple days reprograming your self .

[skrubol]

You should take your own advice. I've done high speed machining on a FANUC lathe myself, never had a problem with memory and nothing a GOTO/WHILE and DO macro command didn't solve which ain't all that hard. Besides, there's probably a Best Buy a 5 minute drive from you that sells memory cards, you can walk out of there with 64 gigs for $30.
I also posted as something he should consider, none of which you responded to appropriately. What good is 1gb of memory trying to run a HSM toolpath at 340IPM when the machine itself can't perform the machining (stuttering and breaking tools)?
What good is all that memory when you select a program that has been stored in the control for literally 2 years and some dope put a block delete in it only to crash?

What good would GOTO/WHILE, etc. do on a 3d contour? Also, the OP stated they never do g-code programming, only CAM.
As far as a 64GB memory card from Bestbuy, from what I've read it isn't exactly the most straightforward to be able to stream a program off an external card on Fanuc.

[ktmktmman]

Look into a doosan with a Siemens 828 control. Much better than haas or fanuc controls.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[D.D.Machine]

Fanuc MF well not run off a USB drive ,, you can only upload and down load to the control ,,, they well run off the old school PCMCIA cards but I don`t think there is a person at bestbuy that would have a clue what your asking about and even then you can only run up to about a 4MB card on the control ...

As for the Siemens 828 from what I have read there a nice control but have vary little support and are really pricey to fix... I had looked into the 2414 mills made by First a couple years back and they had the siemens 828 control or the Fanuc mate control so I would take it that the 828 is low end control with little memory and slow at contouring but that is just based on price ...

[generaldisarray]

Look into a doosan with a Siemens 828 control. Much better than haas or fanuc controls.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Ahhahahah!!
Much better than either,by what possible measure?

[D.D.Machine]

Ahhahahah!!
Much better than either,by what possible measure?

I was thinking the same thing but I have never worked with the 828 control, but I well say after 37 years in the trade the Haas control is hands down the best control I have ever worked with ,, some guys like Fanuc but after working with it back in the late 80s and into the 90`s and then spending years on other controls going back to Fanuc was kind of like going from windows 10 back to MS Dos . It works good but is a pain to learn and hard to work with.


One big change I have seen is 30 years ago most shop employees could setup and run Fanuc and the last 10 years of so that has changed over to Haas controls … I can take a new guy and train him to do simple Haas setups in a couple hours … were I spend "DAYS" retraining my self to get good at Fanuc setups...

[ktmktmman]

I should probably retract my statement slightly. I have been programming and setting up many different machines for the last 15 years and my personal favorite to work with is the Siemens 840D for complex 5 axis and 3+2 work. Siemens and heidenhain are the goto controls on all the high end machines like hermle,grob,dmg. They do the advanced surfacing and plane transformations with much more elegance and simplicity compared to Fanuc. I do however love the Haas control as it has massive amounts of support here in the US and all the CAM vendors have great support for it.

[Renegadechuck]

I have 2 doosan machines DNM 750 and a DNM 5700
Both have "data server" options which is by far the best memory/loading of programs I've experienced. The Fanuc control take a standard PCMCIA card and uses it for the memory.

I have 32GB of memory in each machine. Before I upgraded to the 32, I had 1GB. It took me a year to fill the 1GB. I leave hundreds of programs in the machine and load multi MB programs in 10 seconds most of the time.

[MechanistMkII]

No offense, but I've had those same dopes leave old programs in the file share, put 'em on the thumb drives they didn't lose, or make revisions to them at the machine, then overwrite them, just to have the same problems because it was never documented or updated, and that's not a fault of the machine. Fridays happen. Ultimately, the Doosan will let you do a lot more in the software, and if you've got the people capable of doing it and the jobs that can take advantage of it, go with the Doosan; program memory I can't speak for, but they've got a virtually unlimited amount of offsets for both coordinates and tools that should make setting up a monkey's job for any lead programmer/fixture maker with half a brain. On the other hand, Haas machines have dead simple controls that can be operated drunk, blind, and one handed by anyone with any amount of time on them. At the end of the day, there is a learning curve with a Doosan that isn't there with a Haas, and while the Doosan may be capable of more, I've yet to see it utilized to it's full potential. To me, it's an overly complicated and expensive machine that solves problems that I don't have but has problems that I wish I didn't. (I am speaking about mills here. The one Doosan Dual Spindle bar fed lathe with Live Tooling that I've had any amount of time with was a privilege to work with, despite that same learning curve).