Needs help on a future purchase

[Master_Arvist]

How is everyone tonight? So I have an upcoming mill purchase coming up. I am looking at a Haas Mini Mill , Mini Mill2, or a Tormach PCNC1100 with the part maker package. I am not trying to start a flame war, but I’m needing help on deciding on the best ROI. I will be machining titanium and S90V stainless steel. Budget is limited so please know a VF2 isn’t an option. The Mini Mill is around $10000 more expensive and th Mini Mill2 is around $17000. The main reason why I am considering these machines is because of the WIPS that will allow me to do lights out work. My time is limited so this feature seems real appealing. Production volume will be low. I have owned a Tormach PCNC1100 and had to sell it due to a job layoff, but was happy with the performance. I could buy two Tormach’s for the price of one of these machines. What would be the better ROI?

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[Ydna]

I have both a Tormach and Minimill at work (among many other machines) so I might be able to throw in some thoughts. Forgiving everything else, the accuracy and reliability for those Haas mills using servos and encoders will be much better in the long run. I've had some trouble with our Tormach so that's my biggest complaint with it. Myself I would rather buy a tabletop CNC with servos compared to anything with stepper motors at this point, regardless of budget.

Minimills are lightweight production machines but they're definitely more sturdy, and CAT tool system is drastically more reliable than the R8 collet with TTS.

One area that they will be *somewhat* equal is the feed-cutting time per component for steels. Keep in mind the Haas will still be quicker due to higher rapid speed and whatnot, but I'm not talking about that. IN reference to the cutting specifically, you'll be limited by the tooling in either machine unless you have workpieces that can take true advantage of high-speed machining in which case the Haas will be obviously faster. However, it really depends on the workpiece and whether or not you can take advantage of those high feedrates.

With our Tormach we reserve it almost exclusively for working steel workpieces for this reason. The performance when running aluminum and plastics and much, much lower because running those materials can be "supercharged" when running it on a Haas (meaning, you max out the RPM and run as fast as possible so long as the finish requirements and spindle power are available). Steel makes it harder to supercharge the cutting parameters, so we run that on the machine with more limited capabilities, in which case the cutting performance between machines is more on part with one-another. Of course the rapid time is very different, but for some workpieces the rapid time is inconsequential. I don't know whether that would be a big deal for your particular workpieces, but it's something you try to estimate.

Anyway, those are the reasons I would look at the Minimills if I were you, money permitting of course.

[Master_Arvist]

On the subject of the mini mill, I know the z axis is 6" shorter, but you have 4" between the spindle head and the the table at its lowest point. The Tormach, you can lower the spindle all the way to the table. I guess what I am getting at is how limiting is the z axis between the two machines. Would a TM1P be a valid contender between the Tormach? This is great feed back thanks!

[mactec54]

How is everyone tonight? So I have an upcoming mill purchase coming up. I am looking at a Haas Mini Mill , Mini Mill2, or a Tormach PCNC1100 with the part maker package. I am not trying to start a flame war, but I’m needing help on deciding on the best ROI. I will be machining titanium and S90V stainless steel. Budget is limited so please know a VF2 isn’t an option. The Mini Mill is around $10000 more expensive and th Mini Mill2 is around $17000. The main reason why I am considering these machines is because of the WIPS that will allow me to do lights out work. My time is limited so this feature seems real appealing. Production volume will be low. I have owned a Tormach PCNC1100 and had to sell it due to a job layoff, but was happy with the performance. I could buy two Tormach’s for the price of one of these machines. What would be the better ROI?

Mini-Mill2 by far the best buy, you can not compare these machines with a Tormach

[Jim Dawson]

We looked at the Tormach 1100, Haas Mini, VF2, and TM series. Finally went with a TM2-P because we wanted the 40 inch X travel to allow machining more parts on a pallet to minimize pallet changes. The considerations were cost, speed, longevity, and most importantly spindle HP due to our limited power situation. The 7.5 HP spindle in the TM2-P is about the max we can handle without bringing in additional power service. We were able to find a almost new (130 hours), well tooled and equipped (every available option), 2016 machine for $40,000. Our target is to be able to make $150/hr of machine time.

We are quite happy with the machine so far, and it rips through aluminum like butter. Haven't tried it on SS yet, but I suspect it will do fine. The 400 IPM rapids are a bit slow, but most of our parts are small so any rapid moves are short. Still working on optimizing the tool paths for better production. Over all it's a giant step up from our 10x50 table CNC knee mill.

[precisionmetal]

How is everyone tonight? So I have an upcoming mill purchase coming up. I am looking at a Haas Mini Mill , Mini Mill2, or a Tormach PCNC1100 with the part maker package.

Have you considered looking for a used VM2 or VM3?

I have an '06 SMM, and in my opinion, these machines are inadequate for doing any sort of ti or ss production work. Simply not beefy enough. jmho

PM

[mactec54]

Have you considered looking for a used VM2 or VM3?

I have an '06 SMM, and in my opinion, these machines are inadequate for doing any sort of ti or ss production work. Simply not beefy enough. jmho

PM

SMM is not as good as a regular MiniMill even though they have almost the same construction, the MiniMill 2 is the best of the small mills, it has a full cast-iron base, and just as good as the VM2 or VM3 just a smaller machine

[Master_Arvist]

Have you considered looking for a used VM2 or VM3?

I have an '06 SMM, and in my opinion, these machines are inadequate for doing any sort of ti or ss production work. Simply not beefy enough. jmho

PM

I have and I would consider it, but power is a limiting factor. If my business takes off and goes full time then the vf series will be the next upgrade.

[Master_Arvist]

SMM is not as good as a regular MiniMill even though they have almost the same construction, the MiniMill 2 is the best of the small mills, it has a full cast-iron base, and just as good as the VM2 or VM3 just a smaller machine

I’m leaning currently more to the TM2P for the travels. I’m 5 months out and people are already asking about work.