Cleaning

[CamIam]

I have been working on a HAAS VF3 and have been having a great time. I would like to clean up the machine. What takes off the coolant goo on the machine. The tool changer covers are sticking because of the build up. I was thinking simple green. I want to do some simple maintenance as well. Any pointers on what I sholud do?

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[Matt@RFR]

It may depend on what coolant you're running, at what concentration, and how long between cleanings you go. I use Blaser coolant at 8% and don't let the machine get very dirty. Windex cleans the outside with almost no effort, and the inside of the machine is pristine with no cleaning at all.

If you have the time, now might be a good time to take all the way covers off to unstick them as well as having a look at what's underneath. Make sure there's not too many chips getting in, make sure the ways are wet with way lube, make sure nothing is rusting real bad, etc.

All I do for maintenance is check all the lube points (SMTC, gear box if you have one, etc.) and make sure the way lube pump is operating properly. Check to see the air regulators are still set correctly. Check tram to see if the machine has settled any. I think that's about all you can do, but if I'm wrong someone will add their own list shortly.

[ToyMaker94566]

I use Simple Green, work just fine. But when I wanna loosen the tough stuff, I'll soak a rag in the machines coolant tank and hit it with that. I don't know what they put in that coolant but it will break up the nastiest caked-on smuts. Just make sure you wear gloves cause it'll take off your skin too if you soak in it to long.

[Machineit]

Once things set dirty too long and there is some corrosion and rust, they have to be disassembled for cleaning.

If you clean the machine regularly all you will get is a build-up of chips and oil residue glue and dust. At my own shop, I cleaned the machines at least every week, usually on Fridays or Saturdays after everyone else had left. Most shops have clean-up up rules if they don't run 24/7 and that is that your last shift of the week the last half hour or so is devoted to clean-up.

If you flush the carousel every week to remove the chips that get up in it, it will clean out the chips and built up oil residue. The coolant will also clean and lube the pins/bolts and springs. I have noticed over the years that the best thing to clean off dried old coolant residue, is the coolant itself. Besides, most all coolants help to lubricate and prevent rust. The coolant is going to get in there anyway, so why not flood it once in a while to clean it all out.

For the outside I just use an industrial cleaner like the purple stuff and dilute it down quite a bit. Best not to use it full strength on any painted surface, and especially don't let it sit long before wiping it off. It will take the gloss out of the paint.

The good thing about the outside is that you can do that anytime you have parts running and that makes it easy to kept it clean.

One last note. I never had as much paint problems as I see on used machines for sale. I think maybe that if you keep it cleaner on the inside by flushing it well with coolant that it will help to keep the paint on the skin.


Just my take.

Cheers---Mike

[Matt@RFR]

What coolant are you using?! After hearing things like that about a lot of other brands, I'll never use anything but Blaser. Like I said before, my mill is a 2007 and I've not once cleaned the inside of it beyond scraping the chips down to the auger and using the washdown hose, and it looks nearly new.

[ToyMaker94566]

What coolant are you using?! After hearing things like that about a lot of other brands, I'll never use anything but Blaser. Like I said before, my mill is a 2007 and I've not once cleaned the inside of it beyond scraping the chips down to the auger and using the washdown hose, and it looks nearly new.

lol... I use "Hangsterfer's S-500 CF"... When I first bought my VF3 and VF4, they came within a week of each other. Both Blaser and Hangsterfer's had a "new machine program” where they give you a 5 gal pail to try. So I ran both the Blaser and the Hanky side by side on virtually the same machine running the same materials, same jobs. Now I came from many shops and always used Blaser so I wasn't expecting much from Hangsterfer's thinking all those shops must know what they were doing. To my surprise, the Blaser fouled after three months while the Hangsterfer's went for six months. So now I only run Hanky. When the Blaser boys came around asking me when my next order was gonna come, I told them I was going with Hangsterfer... OMG, they went absolutely ballistic on me! They said their coolant was a superior product and that I was simply mixing it incorrectly and insisted on doing it again! They wanted me to purchase a special mixing nozzle that was like a $1000 and yada yada yada. I said no thanks, end of story. When I told the Hangsterfer guys about the encounter, they asked if I would consider pressing harassment charges!!! I guess Blaser's strong-arm business tactics were drawing attention from the legal guys at Hangsterfer's, it was getting ugly. I just wanted a good coolant and that is how it went.

Long story short, I chose Hangsterfer's because it simply out lasted Blaser and gave me finishes just as good as anything I got from the Blaser for the same money. Oh yeah, one more thing, Blaser use to be a mint blue and switched their mix to a milky white which looked bad after a week. I suppose the blue die is not necessary but I like the blue and hope Hangsterfer's never changes their recipe. If you find Blaser working for you, I’m cool with it.

[Matt@RFR]

If you find Blaser working for you, I’m cool with it.

Likewise with your Hangstefers. However I must say that the Blaser I have in the sump is almost 4 years old and still going strong. I think coolant choice has a lot to do with your local water quality.

[ToyMaker94566]

Likewise with your Hangstefers. However I must say that the Blaser I have in the sump is almost 4 years old and still going strong. I think coolant choice has a lot to do with your local water quality.

True, I'm sure water condition makes a huge dif as well. My water here is very hard.....

But 4 years?! Sounds like you take much better care of your sump than I do with mine. I clean and replace my sumps every 6 months. I don't bother with skimming oil, to messy for me. Is Blaser still that milky white or did they go back to blue?

BTW, The Blaser guy told me that they also scent their coolant to smell like Play-Doh; I did like that smell.

[Matt@RFR]

It's white still. Play-Doh huh? I've been trying to place the smell since I got this coolant...now I know!

Back to the topic of cleaning, sort of: Does anyone here use Rain-X or anything like it on the inside of the windows? Visibility is not a big enough concern for me to spring for an air wiper, but something as simple as wiping the lexan down once in a while would be nice.

[WallyL7]

I agree with you guys that are using coolant to clean the machine. It also won't rust when you are done since it is oil based.

I also use Blaser - and literally have the opposite experience regarding the lifespan and smell vs hangsterfers. I've run my coolant up to a year and don't mind the smell of Playdoh...lol

I use the LPS precision clean product also. That stuff is awesome.

[xiondavis]

Original question - getting rid of the goo... I've tried methanol and it easily removes the goo and evaporates so it doesn't contaminate my coolant (or so i've heard).

I used blaser also at 8% - my first sump lasted for 3 years with top-offs (dry air in colorado - machine sat for 2 weeks at a time). I recently cleaned it and re-filled. unfortunately, i encountered a reverse emulsion (probably from adding some plain water) and now I have $180 worth of gloppy goop. Guess that $1000 mixer would pay for itself eventually. guess when they say always add the oil to water, they really mean it

[ToyMaker94566]

... Guess that $1000 mixer would pay for itself eventually. guess when they say always add the oil to water, they really mean it

Maybe... But I use Hangsterfers, it doesn't matter how I mix it.

[Machineit]

Most modern coolants are pretty easy to mix and can be done just about any way, but this was not always the case.

You might check with the manufacturer on how to mix the coolant with the water. Some you must add the coolant to the water and others you have to add the water to the coolant.

I know it sounds crazy, but with some coolants if you add coolant to water the water molecules surround the coolant molecules and if you add water to the coolant the coolant molecules surround the water. If mixed incorrectly, the oil will come out of the solution and float on top and you can't correct it.

Mike

[WallyL7]

Maybe... But I use Hangsterfers, it doesn't matter how I mix it.

Talk to any Hangsterfers rep - They all say to add the concentrate to the water. And most recommend the emulsifier.






__________________________________________________ ______________

Instructions

Pre-mixing Procedures: Always premix coolant before adding to the machine sump. Never add straight water or straight concentrate directly to the machine's sump. For best results a Hangsterfer’s recommended proportioning device should be used. If mixing by hand, always add concentrate to water, and then agitate. It is important to remember that as water evaporates from the coolant, the concentration will increase. To maintain the recommended concentration in the machine, make-up coolant should be pre-mixed at half the % concentration as the initial fill. To maintain 6% in the machine, first change the machine at 6%, then add make-up at 3% to keep the machine full.

S-500 Details
__________________________________________________ __________

[ToyMaker94566]

Talk to any Hangsterfers rep - They all say to add the concentrate to the water. And most recommend the emulsifier.

I'm sure it's true. I've mixed both ways and see no dif. I would love to have a atomiser but the ones I found only work with a 55 gal drum when I buy 5 gal at a time.

[WallyL7]

I've also seen it mixed both ways (hangsterfers) and have seen the same results as you...So I guess Hangsterfers can go both ways?...

I have a atomizer that I use on a 5 gallon pail...got it from tool technology for about 5 hundred bucks if memory serves me...

[ToyMaker94566]

... I have a atomizer that I use on a 5 gallon pail...got it from tool technology for about 5 hundred bucks if memory serves me...

Tool Technology in Fremont CA? That's my neighborhood.

[Machineit]

I've also seen it mixed both ways (hangsterfers) and have seen the same results as you...So I guess Hangsterfers can go both ways?...

I have a atomizer that I use on a 5 gallon pail...got it from tool technology for about 5 hundred bucks if memory serves me...

There are mixers that are pretty inexpensive, under $200 I believe, on sites like MSC. (SEE BELOW) They may be made for 55 gallon drums, but you can pick up a used plastic drum for about $20 and put your 5 gallons of coolant in that. That is what I did for my last work place. Then you just change the plugs for the concentration that you want.

One thing you might want to remember about adding coolant to a machine is that the type of machining you do determines what you will be adding.

If you do a lot of machining that produces very little chips, such as precision machining lots of stainless, you will loose water from evaporation as the coolant is showered around the machine. Your mixture will then get richer.

If you machine makings lots of chips, like you do when machining/roughing aluminum and ending up with a machine full of clips, then you are going to loose the oil itself. When the chips dry before they are removed, the oil coats them and it is removed with the chips. Therefore you end up making your coolant leaner.

Just something to think about. How you machine will determine how your coolant changes. I have had machines get very rich in a short time because we were not removing much material, but were spending a lot of time precision machining.

Never hurts to invest in a refractometer.

MSC Item Detail


Cheers----Mike

[Machineit]

Here is one from Rutland tool. It is the one I had in my previous shop.

https://www.shoprutlandtool.com/weba...atalogId=10001

Mike

[WallyL7]

Tool Technology in Fremont CA? That's my neighborhood.

That's the one.