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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Re-wiring a Gerber Sabre 408

    Heya )

    my display will be a normal dell computer monitor, and to control it I'm, going to use a normal dell computer keyboard.
    All that's left from the original machine is the actual router, in my case

    The bigger control box is gone, I'm using the smaller one for everything
    The control pad is gone, i have no use for it.
    I'm not using the vacuum, but you could control that with the masso.
    I'm not using the original inverter cos I do not have three phase,
    I'm using a Chinese inverter to power the spindle.

    Maybe you could keep some of the functions of the control pad? Probably somebody else could, but it never crossed my mind. I understand why you would want to keep using it the way you have been, but i dont think it will make a very big difference in the event. Thinking about it, actually the display will be much bigger and the control software will be much less restrictive in a retrofitted machine.



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    Quote Originally Posted by ned_seven View Post
    Heya )

    my display will be a normal dell computer monitor, and to control it I'm, going to use a normal dell computer keyboard.
    All that's left from the original machine is the actual router, in my case

    The bigger control box is gone, I'm using the smaller one for everything
    The control pad is gone, i have no use for it.
    I'm not using the vacuum, but you could control that with the masso.
    I'm not using the original inverter cos I do not have three phase,
    I'm using a Chinese inverter to power the spindle.

    Maybe you could keep some of the functions of the control pad? Probably somebody else could, but it never crossed my mind. I understand why you would want to keep using it the way you have been, but i dont think it will make a very big difference in the event. Thinking about it, actually the display will be much bigger and the control software will be much less restrictive in a retrofitted machine.
    Thanks for that info. I thought that might be the case. So far, my knowledge of these Gerber machines is still in the vocabulary-gathering stage.

    I think that the problem is with the cpu or the main driver board (if that’s what it’s called). I presume that my servo drive modules are still good, since all three axes move into their orienting positions, regardless of where the axes start. Do you or anyone on here know about who the driver module manufacturer is and any possible pinouts? I’m also open to being told that such an endeavor is a waste of time and buying new driver modules is the only reasonable option.

    EDIT: I just found the manufacturer: Elmo and model number SSA-8/100

    Even found the manual for them. http://www.elmomc.com/support/manuals/MAN_SSA_UG_EN_0698.pdf



  3. #23
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    Default Re: Re-wiring a Gerber Sabre 408

    I have two of those driver boards that im not using, you are welcome to them for the price of postage and packing, they are no good to me.

    I got the new driver boards working, weeeew! EA and EB are flashing when servo shaft is rotated.
    From here the wiring is all downhill, I think. My day job is hectic at the mo hence slow progress. Weather is getting better here in Ireland so trying to get the electrics done so i can work outside again in the evenings. (cmon cmon).







    Starting to think about a control box for the spindle next. Going to try re-use the reactor and line filter that the original VFD used, though its all for three phase. More reading to be done.







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    Default Re: Re-wiring a Gerber Sabre 408

    This is the larger control box. Its a very nice box, very well made. Its also huge. I'm going to chop it up and make a smaller box with it, for the VFD. Looking forwards to cutting and melting stuff after all this looking at wires.



    Last edited by ned_seven; 04-30-2018 at 06:27 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ned_seven View Post
    I have two of those driver boards that im not using, you are welcome to them for the price of postage and packing, they are no good to me.
    Wow! That would be amazing! I’ll send you a PM.



  6. #26
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    Default Re: Re-wiring a Gerber Sabre 408

    All good.

    vfd box









    Have some more cutting to do, then weld it, then sort out a hinge for it. Looking good so far tho, the box transformed easily.

    Last edited by ned_seven; 05-01-2018 at 06:51 PM.


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    Default Re: Re-wiring a Gerber Sabre 408

    Forgive the newbie question. Here’s how I think the system is wired.



    My understanding of how you have wired your system is to replace the part that is in the dashed box (not exactly a box in the sketch) Also, I think that you replaced the servo amps as well (not in the dashed box)

    This means that you have replaced the four boards shown in the following picture. There is the bottom board (servo drive controller, I think??), the upper board (CPU and memory cards?) and the two peripheral interface boards (oriented vertically, one connects to a PC and the other connects to the handheld controller):



    Now here’s where I’m a little confused. My system has three of the following servo amps (X, Y and Z) mounted inside the lower part of the tower. Can you confirm that you replaced these in your new system? It appears that you did. I’m fairly confident that these are working ok in my system. I’m pretty sure that the problem with mine is the drive controller board up top and/or the CPU on top of it.



    If I do have to go this route, is the Masso controller the preferred magic box here or does anyone know of any recommended units?

    Thank you for all of the info and great documentation.

    Last edited by EngineerTex; 05-03-2018 at 07:26 AM.


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    Default Re: Re-wiring a Gerber Sabre 408

    Tex yah,m no need to update the photos above, i understand what you mean without doing so.

    The servo (drives / amplifiers / amps) are located in the underside section, with the arrow in this pic. This is what I was going to send you. If they are fine, there is npo point in me sending you these.

    The motherboard is located in the top section where the star is. If this is broken, you are screwed, frankly. I have a motherboard i could send you but I think that is broken too, and you are looking at huge cash to have it repaired, so far as I can gather. So by far the cheaper option is to retrofit it with something more modern.



    I am a newbie too. I chose the masso because im a fan of simplicity, which the masso attempts to achieve. But its not a widely used unit, yet, so I cant offer any advice more than that,

    What I think you could or should do, is refer to the gerber wiring diagrams contained in this thread, I will complete them before this thread is done. Refer to them and then find a CNC enthusiast located near you thats willing to help you out. Join the facebook CNC router groups and ask if there is anyone located near you that will help. There are LOADS of facebook CNC groups.
    Or learn yourself. There is either effort or money required in any direction you choose here.


    If you want, I can post you every board I have, for the price of post and packing.

    They are sitting atop the machine at the moment and I don't want to throw them in the bin, it will make me feel good that they might be of some use to someone. Let me know, might be worth a try.

    Last edited by ned_seven; 05-03-2018 at 04:31 AM.


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    Default Re: Re-wiring a Gerber Sabre 408

    Ned_Seven,

    Any updates on your Gerber Saber?
    I just purchased a Gerber Sabre 408 last weekend. What a rock solid machine mechanically.
    Previous owner was told by the Gerber Tech he needed to replace the following Servo items Gerber Part #P61544B ($1,680) #P61529C ($532) #P61525C ($507).
    I'm still waiting to get access to the Gerber Online support docs so I can look online to see what parts are bad. They sent me a credit application to fill out and wanted proof of
    ownership before issuing me a user Id. to get access to their website. Everything is locked down.

    I want to replace/update the current proprietary controller system and add a water cooled spindle.

    At this point, I have 2 choices:
    1. Re-wiring controls using your method using existing Servos, Machdrives RBR and Centroid Acorn.
    2. Replace Servos with DMM DNY4 NEMA 34 ($1400) and Centroid Acorn. If I go this route I need have the Servo brackets machined to accept NEMA 34 motors which means removing ball screw nut.
    (I saw pictures Ned had posted of a Gerber Sabre machined to accept NEMA 34 steppers.)

    I would prefer No. 1 because of cost and time. Only problem is that I don't know if the existing servo is bad or even how to test it. How did you test to see if your servos and encoders were good.

    Thanks
    Karl



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    Quote Originally Posted by kawfree View Post
    Ned_Seven,

    Any updates on your Gerber Saber?
    I just purchased a Gerber Sabre 408 last weekend. What a rock solid machine mechanically.
    Previous owner was told by the Gerber Tech he needed to replace the following Servo items Gerber Part #P61544B ($1,680) #P61529C ($532) #P61525C ($507).
    I'm still waiting to get access to the Gerber Online support docs so I can look online to see what parts are bad. They sent me a credit application to fill out and wanted proof of
    ownership before issuing me a user Id. to get access to their website. Everything is locked down.

    I want to replace/update the current proprietary controller system and add a water cooled spindle.

    At this point, I have 2 choices:
    1. Re-wiring controls using your method using existing Servos, Machdrives RBR and Centroid Acorn.
    2. Replace Servos with DMM DNY4 NEMA 34 ($1400) and Centroid Acorn. If I go this route I need have the Servo brackets machined to accept NEMA 34 motors which means removing ball screw nut.
    (I saw pictures Ned had posted of a Gerber Sabre machined to accept NEMA 34 steppers.)

    I would prefer No. 1 because of cost and time. Only problem is that I don't know if the existing servo is bad or even how to test it. How did you test to see if your servos and encoders were good.

    Thanks
    Karl
    Karl,

    Is your machine doing anything at all?

    For mine, I think that I have determined the problem to be with the optical motor encoder on the Y-axis. I determined this by pulling the Y-motor and swapping it out with the X-axis. When I did this, the error on the controller display changed from listing a Y-axis error to listing an X-axis error.

    What errors are you getting?

    Tex



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    Default Re: Re-wiring a Gerber Sabre 408

    Hi Karl, Tex )

    No progress really, work ramped up so I'm too tired in the evenings for hobbies. I'm tipping away, slowly like water. I'll get there. Regarding your post Karl, i would say use my diagrams for the machdrives, and the controller is up to you. Using the masso too makes it very simple for you. My encoder to machdrive diagram is not correct, i need to update it when i finally wire it.
    I got it working but I had to stop, life took over, other things to deal with. Never completed assembly. Will get there, maybe this weekend, though I doubt it. I have not even tested the servo motors yet! I think they are fine though. Will see soon enough.



  12. #32
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    Default Re: Re-wiring a Gerber Sabre 408

    Great diagrams



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    Default Re: Re-wiring a Gerber Sabre 408

    Tfigs thanks ) Hope people find them as useful as I do. I know no other way to proceed. Have started disassembling the gerber, going to spend a few days scrubbing it.





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    Default Re: Re-wiring a Gerber Sabre 408

    Tfigs thanks ) Hope people find them as useful as I do. I know no other way to proceed. Have started disassembling the gerber, going to spend a few days scrubbing it. Then I am going to clompletely break it down and store it away while i reconfigure my shed. Im building a 6x10 plasma machine, then I will re-assemble the gerber when that is done.





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    Quote Originally Posted by ned_seven View Post
    I have two of those driver boards that im not using, you are welcome to them for the price of postage and packing, they are no good to me.

    I got the new driver boards working, weeeew! EA and EB are flashing when servo shaft is rotated.
    From here the wiring is all downhill, I think. My day job is hectic at the mo hence slow progress. Weather is getting better here in Ireland so trying to get the electrics done so i can work outside again in the evenings. (cmon cmon).







    Starting to think about a control box for the spindle next. Going to try re-use the reactor and line filter that the original VFD used, though its all for three phase. More reading to be done.



    I’m having the same issues what did you have to do to fix this issue



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    Quote Originally Posted by kawfree View Post
    Ned_Seven,

    Any updates on your Gerber Saber?
    I just purchased a Gerber Sabre 408 last weekend. What a rock solid machine mechanically.
    Previous owner was told by the Gerber Tech he needed to replace the following Servo items Gerber Part #P61544B ($1,680) #P61529C ($532) #P61525C ($507).
    I'm still waiting to get access to the Gerber Online support docs so I can look online to see what parts are bad. They sent me a credit application to fill out and wanted proof of
    ownership before issuing me a user Id. to get access to their website. Everything is locked down.

    I want to replace/update the current proprietary controller system and add a water cooled spindle.

    At this point, I have 2 choices:
    1. Re-wiring controls using your method using existing Servos, Machdrives RBR and Centroid Acorn.
    2. Replace Servos with DMM DNY4 NEMA 34 ($1400) and Centroid Acorn. If I go this route I need have the Servo brackets machined to accept NEMA 34 motors which means removing ball screw nut.
    (I saw pictures Ned had posted of a Gerber Sabre machined to accept NEMA 34 steppers.)

    I would prefer No. 1 because of cost and time. Only problem is that I don't know if the existing servo is bad or even how to test it. How did you test to see if your servos and encoders were good.

    Thanks
    Karl
    Where can I find these pictures of the nema34 conversion on the 404?



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    Default Re: Re-wiring a Gerber Sabre 408

    Sorry I just saw your post.
    Ned_Seven had posted pictures of a Nema34 conversion done by another Gerber Sabre 408 owner!

    https://www.cnczone.com/forums/comme...ml#post2076540



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    Default Re: Re-wiring a Gerber Sabre 408

    Ned_Seven or MachDrives

    Do you have a picture of your BRB CONFIGURATION and TUNING parameters for your Parvex Servos. I was able to get Encoder part working. The DRO gives me an exact count for 1 rotation. The problem is when I try running Tuna V2.07 wave generator I enable the Drive installing a jumper between EN and 0V. I put the values in the Proportional Gain and drive doesn't move. If I put too high of a value it faults the Motor and I need to power everything down again. Not really sure about my configuration. My Step/Dir counts per unit = 50 for full rotation which = 8 mm movement on the Axis while Encoder Counts per unit = 2000



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    Default Re: Re-wiring a Gerber Sabre 408

    Hi kawfree,
    If you need quicker support you can contact us directly on our support email address as we only check the forum occasionally. Your encoder counts sounds correct and you have verified it with the DRO. Your Step counts/unit is way too low. If your units are millimeters then set this to 200, if you are using inches then set this to 5000. You shouldn't be hard wiring the enable line, it should be controlled from your controller enable output. The drive disables on the high level and enables on the high to low transition. If you get a fault you don't need to power everything down, just toggle the enable line and you are good to go again. Also after changing your step or encoder counts toggle the enable line to recalculate the electronic gearing. What is the fault you are getting? I suspect it is following error. You can check the status flash count or the last 5 faults are listed on the Tuna monitoring tab. I suspect if you look the Tuna scope traces you will see the command trace starts heading up while the motor trace heads in the wrong direction (down) If so power down and reverse the motor wires and try again.
    Regards
    David
    Machdrives



  20. #40
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    Default Re: Re-wiring a Gerber Sabre 408

    I am new to Gerber, but I dove into a Sabre 404. Everything works on it but I don't have the software. I am trying to figure out if I should spend $1000 on the artpath or switch it over to mach3. I am generally mechanically inclined, but it was confusing to read this thread. With someone to walk me through the steps I know I could do it, but I am concerned about it being too big of a job.
    Were any of you able to get one up and running on mach3? How much did it end up costing? Man hours and $$$.
    Thank you for sharing your experiences.
    Chris
    Utah, USA.



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