Plasma Air Drying


Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Plasma Air Drying

  1. #1
    Registered millman52's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    USA , West Virginia
    Posts
    1260
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Plasma Air Drying

    There has been much talk about needing clean dry air for an Air/Plasma system to operate properly & get optimum consumable life.

    I have a apx. 15 gal. chamber (long but small diameter) buried underground Temperature remains about 56 deg F. That works very well as a water condensing chamber. I get very little condensate in my shop air lines. The standard in line water traps down stream from my big chamber rarely catch additional moistuer.

    I guess my question is.

    How dry is dry enough?
    Is there affordable equipment, meter etc. to measure in line moisture?
    What about the oil that is always present in compressed air?
    Do these standard means of water trapping get the oil too?


    For discussion purposes, assume 40 hrs per week run time of a plasma table.
    running in an area that humidity levels are pretty high through all spring through fall months.

    Similar Threads:
    If it works.....Don't fix it!


  2. #2

    Default

    Hi,
    I am not an air expert but my experience has been if it is dry and clean enough to spray paint with, then it is good enough for plasma.
    Dayton (Granger) makes a good, cheap air dryer.
    Ask someone who sells automotive spray paint what to use, and you will be headed in the right direction.

    The problem with Water or Oil in the air is it will shorten the electrode life drastically and the nozzle as well.

    I dont know of anyone who measures the air quality.
    If you are getting the expected life from your consumables then your air is OK.
    If the time or pierces go down then look at the air.

    Good Luck,
    Alan Bradford
    Plasma Technologies
    Canaan NH
    www.plasmatechnologies.com



  3. #3
    Registered millman52's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    USA , West Virginia
    Posts
    1260
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Bradford View Post
    Hi,

    Dayton (Granger) makes a good, cheap air dryer.

    Good Luck,Alan Bradford
    Plasma Technologies
    Canaan NH
    www.plasmatechnologies.com
    What particular mod. or part # are you referring to?

    If it works.....Don't fix it!


  4. #4

    Default

    I am not sure of a model number.
    I see them in a lot of shops, feeding the plasma machines.
    They are about 20 Inches square and about 2 feet tall.
    Check the ratings for your plasma and make sure it can handle the pressure and flow requirements.

    Alan Bradford
    www.plasmatechnologies.com


  5. #5
    Registered millman52's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    USA , West Virginia
    Posts
    1260
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Thanks Alan,

    That physical size indicates they are most likely a small refrigerated drier. From all accounts I get they do work very well. They are also somewhere in the $500.00-$1000.00 price range for the smaller sizes of them.

    Not a bad investment if you are burning through consumables at a high rate.

    I have zero experience with running a machine/plasma. I just don't have any sort of baseline to go on. Other than the general, "You Need Dry Air", That everyone states.

    I don't mind the inital investment so much for a refrigerated drier. If I do need it & don't have it it could easily cost half the price of a drier in consumables.

    If it works.....Don't fix it!


  6. #6

    Default

    Check with your Plasma mfg. to see what is concidered normal. (I wish they had spell checkers on Forums!!!!)

    Try a few setups to see if it is close, being mindfull that pierce height makes a lot of diffrence to the nozzle.
    The electrode is what is most effected by the Air Quialiy.
    I would get a 2 stage ,water trap and oil seperator, (From the spray paint guy.)
    After a short while you can see how much water isin your air. You will have to drain it often, unless it is an automatic type.
    Then make the decission on the air dryer.

    Alan Bradford
    www.plasmatechnologies.com


  7. #7
    Member Karl_T's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Dassel.MN
    Posts
    1542
    Downloads
    2
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Just a thought outside the box.

    Dry the air first. A cheap window AC unit costs about $100. Put it in a closet with your air compressor intake. Or get a small chest freezer and put an air intake flap on it and pipe the air compressor intake into the box.

    Or, I just ACed the whole room and had to work in cool dry air

    Karl



  8. #8
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2247
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    I don't have one....but I have heard from many users that the $350 Harbor Freight air dryer works very well. It is sized correctly for most air plasma systems under 100 Amps....and comes with an automatic drain.

    You can cut with wet air....but cut quality will deteriorate very rapidly due to electrode wear....and the carbonization of the electrode and inside bore of the nozzle on most non-high frequency air plasma's will cause misfiring of the torch. If you do much cutting...money spent on a refrigerated air dryer is well spent. Other than buying one of these units....look at the same treatment that is required for auto spray painting equipment...this stuff can be pretty cheap....but will require maintenance (filters, cleaning, etc.) where the refrigerated unit just keeps working.

    Another twist that I've heard of for the small shop....move some of the beer aside (in the shop fridge) and put a plastic tank filled with water with a coil of 3/8" copper in it...run your compressed air through this.....with a float type water trap and auto drain just outside the fridge. The water adds some capacity...and helps transfer the heat from the air. The beer will be a few degrees warmer though....

    Jim



  9. #9
    Registered
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    8
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jimcolt View Post
    Another twist that I've heard of for the small shop....move some of the beer aside (in the shop fridge) and put a plastic tank filled with water with a coil of 3/8" copper in it...run your compressed air through this.....with a float type water trap and auto drain just outside the fridge. The water adds some capacity...and helps transfer the heat from the air. The beer will be a few degrees warmer though....

    Jim
    Sounds like a good argument for a new beer fridge to me!



  10. #10
    Registered millman52's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    USA , West Virginia
    Posts
    1260
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    I picked up this item today. It should eliminate any question on the moisture issue. It also has a coalescent filter which will eliminate oil vapor also.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Plasma Air Drying-hankinston-jpg  
    If it works.....Don't fix it!


  11. #11
    Registered
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    227
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Millman,

    Where did you pick up the new unit? It sure does look pretty. How much did you get it for? warranty? I have been looking at dryers at northern tool they are made by Quincy and Ingersoll Rand, great companies but they are a little out of my price range for now. The cheapiest starts at around $1,500...

    -Stupid Question- now the cfm rating on the unit, Can you run a compressor with a higher CFM than the dryer? If so this means the air flow out will only handle what the dryer cfm is?


    The dryers I looked at are 25 cfm rated and my compressor runs at 32 cfm.....



  12. #12
    Registered
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    227
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Just a second thought for laughs... We can all just order those hookers of craigslist and get them to suck the moisture out of the lines...lol it might be cheaper... I live in FL so I def. need to pick up a dryer soon, the humidity is like 800%, its not that high but probably the worst place... If you live in nevada or a very dry state(desert) im sure you wouldnt need one...



  13. #13
    Registered millman52's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    USA , West Virginia
    Posts
    1260
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dustin407 View Post
    Millman,

    Where did you pick up the new unit? It sure does look pretty. How much did you get it for? warranty? I have been looking at dryers at northern tool they are made by Quincy and Ingersoll Rand, great companies but they are a little out of my price range for now. The cheapiest starts at around $1,500...

    -Stupid Question- now the cfm rating on the unit, Can you run a compressor with a higher CFM than the dryer? If so this means the air flow out will only handle what the dryer cfm is?


    The dryers I looked at are 25 cfm rated and my compressor runs at 32 cfm.....
    Got it from off ebay, Paperwork is with it to register the warranty. It is a current mod. MSC Industriasl has the exact same unit listed for somewhere around $850.00. As for the price I paid just a bit less including freight than what Harbor Freight has their China dryer listed for.

    Basically you are correct on the capacity. If I remember correctly, the way they are rated is @10 CFM it will take the dew point to 34 deg f. @ 15 CFM dew point to 50 deg. f. These #'s are rough but you get the idea. I'm sure the efficiency is determined in a large part by how far down line from your compressor it is installed. I've seen it time after time, people having a water trap 5' away from the compressor. It just don't work. The more distance you can put between your receiever tank & your first water trap the better off you are.

    Below is a diagram of my first line of defense to remove moisture. The underground "drip tank" is made from 6" steel pipe about 5' long. This drip tank is apx 25' away from the compressor & is plumbed underground with heavy 1/2" copper. This works very well as a chiller & gets a huge part of water pulled off right here. Then I have wall mounted traps at other strategic locations, Air hoist(s), couple places that air tools are most often used. Simple blow off air gets no additional filtration.

    My compressor makes more air @ 175# than the 15 CFM rating of this unit. I already have several measures in place that for the most part keeps my lines dry. All I really wanted was enough capacity with the refrigerated unit to handle the plasma air alone.

    I most likely would have been fine with installing another water/oil seperator & desiccant type filter just prior to the plasma unit.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Plasma Air Drying-drip-tank-jpg  
    Last edited by millman52; 05-01-2009 at 11:57 PM.
    If it works.....Don't fix it!


  14. #14
    Registered
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    227
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Thanks for the input, ill definetly have to look at msc industrial. I may possibly purchase the same unit, in a couple months. That is a good price, keep me updated and let me know how it all works out...



  15. #15
    Registered millman52's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    USA , West Virginia
    Posts
    1260
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dustin407 View Post
    Thanks for the input, ill definetly have to look at msc industrial. I may possibly purchase the same unit, in a couple months. That is a good price, keep me updated and let me know how it all works out...
    From all accounts I get the Harbor Freight unit has about the same specs & works & holds up well. It is in the catalog for $359.99 I believe it was. I checked with my local store & a 2 year free replacement warranty was somewhere $70.00 ish. I'd have bought one of them had I not happened across the Hankison

    This is the closest thing mscdirect has. The one I bought is a mod HPR15-115last years mod.

    here is the specs: new Hankinston refrigerated air dryer with coalescing filter. * MFG # HPRJ15 - 115v

    * Pipe Size ( inch ); 3/8" * Horsepower; 1/10 * CFM @ 38 degree F dewpoint 15 * CFM @ 50 degree F dewpoint 19

    * Killowatt 0.22 * Heigth ( inch ); 14" * Length ( inch ); 16" * Width ( inch ); 11"

    * Eliminate harmfull moisture and provide high quality, clean, dry air.

    * Copper heat exchanger won't foul - No prefilter required

    * Multi - tube - in - tube heat exchangers ensure consistent outlet dew point, low pressure drop

    * Large precoolers plus fully insulated heat exchangers minimize power requirments

    * No Air Loss - compressed air powered demand drains offer positive condesate discharge

    * Non - Clycling, direct expansion refrigeration system give tight tempature control and long service life

    * Epoxy powder coated cabinet

    * Includes power on lite and 6 ft power cord



    This is a HPRJ15-115 specs are nearly identical. http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT...MT4NO=63057947

    Here is the identical item still listed for sale online.... http://www.drillspot.com/products/35...ated_Air_Dryer

    If it works.....Don't fix it!


  16. #16
    Registered
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    227
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Thanks for all the input. I looked at the harbor frieght dryer last night online. It was made by central pneumatic, I believe. The price is extremely good and usually you get what you pay for. But what impressed me was the cfm rating was extremely high. It said 21.6 cfm but it did not give the temp. at that cfm, so im guessing it was high(50-60). This would probably work for me but, I dont think it would last very long...



  17. #17
    Registered millman52's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    USA , West Virginia
    Posts
    1260
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    You have no way of knowing how long anything like that will last. Probably if you use it for plasma air only & your table doesn't run 8 hr 5 day per week. One of them may last years. You just don't know.

    I bought a couple of HF's Chicago Electric 3 HP "compressor duty" motors. The motors are ok but the points on the centrifugal starting circuit that switches off the start cap are junk. Neither motor lasted over 6 months before I had to cannabalize parts from other US motors to repair the start circuit.

    I read on another thread here somewhere. The post had a link to an american company selling a comperable unit, not china made, that ran somewhere in the $500.00. Maybe a search would turn it up for you. I was going to search again for it but happened across the one I purchased first.

    If it works.....Don't fix it!


  18. #18
    Registered
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    57
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Plasma Air Drying

    Okay, smack me for replying to an old thread, but I found this thread really useful so I wanted to add something to it for others that may come across it. I am going to add a Harbor Freight Air Dryer to my setup, now that I know about it. However, I'm going to cool the air before it goes into the air dryer like this:
    I'm taking the output of the compressor pump into a universal aluminum condenser (cheap on eBay). (Basically this is adding a cheap aftercooler with automatic drain and check valve between the tank and the compressor pump.) I'll take the output of the condenser at the bottom of the unit where it will have a Tee on it going to an water air separator that has an automatic drain (The drain is spring loaded and opens when the pressure drops). The tee at the bottom of the condenser will also go into a check valve and then into the Harbor Freight Air Dryer. The output of the Dryer will go into the tank through another check valve. This means that the unloader that is on my compressor will unload the pressure between the air dryer and the compressor pump. The condenser and automatic drain water separator will lose pressure also.)

    I also plan on adding a box fan on a "on make" AC powered relay that will turn my cheap box fan on high blowing across my condenser and across the compressor housing for a pre-set number of minutes every time the compressor turns on.

    This is my riff on designs I've seen on Youtube ranging from vertical expansion chambers, to coils in 50 gallon drums of water, to universal condensers. I think the box fan and the harbor freight air dryer are some very nice touches that should yield air that is as dry as possible for much less than $600.

    If I needed even dryer air, I could add a media based air dryer with rechargeable media. For my plasma cutter, I might do that. For my mill with power draw bar, I don't think that is necessary. The mill will have a small oiler on it to keep the draw bar lubricated. The universal condenser can drop air temperatures 100 to 150 degrees without the fan. I'm hoping for a nice chunk cooler air going into the dryer. Compressors can output ~300 degree air. So if I can drop that down to 100 degrees before going into the Harbor Freight Air Dryer, it should be able to get the air even dryer. Also a box fan uses less energy to pre-cool the air than the small refrigerator would use.

    I hope these thoughts help someone else looking to dry their air. I figure $360 for the HF Dryer, $70 for the condenser, a $15 box fan, and some odds and ends, I should be able to do this for $600 or less. I've seen people use just the universal condenser and be able to paint and sandblast nicely with that air.



Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


About CNCzone.com

    We are the largest and most active discussion forum for manufacturing industry. The site is 100% free to join and use, so join today!

Follow us on


Our Brands

Plasma Air Drying

Plasma Air Drying