Hi Nicolas ,
the push button switchs can only switch a 5A current to a resistive load
and not inductive loads like a motor
but you can use the switch to control a 24V relay that can switch the motor current on and off
John
If this is SOJ or similar Cab Tire sheath then the conductors will already be twisted.
This only works if in fact they are maintained P.B.s, if so 24v common is taken to one side of the lamp, the 24vdc+ is taken to one side of one of the N.O. switches, the other side of the N.O. is taken to the other terminal of the lamp.
Re the rating, 24v is alot less than 240v, so no problem as long as no heavy current DC is used.
Al.
CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design
“Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
Albert E.
Hi Nicolas ,
the push button switchs can only switch a 5A current to a resistive load
and not inductive loads like a motor
but you can use the switch to control a 24V relay that can switch the motor current on and off
John
Thank you Al, that was a very good tip; I will take the +24VDC to one NO terminal and from the other NO terminal I will go to lamp’s terminal and from the other lamps terminal I will go to -24VDC. So when I push the switch the NO contacts will close and light the lamp.
John thank you for the schematics but for these push buttons I will use them as per Al’s suggestion.
For the Sherline motor I will use the switch I describe in post 76 (HZ5B, AC-3, 4kw, 400V, 10A). This switch should be able to handle the motor.
I installed today the main components in my controls enclosure and I attach here some pic for comments. I will use your schematic John from post 95 and therefore there is no need for me to post another schematic on how I will do the wiring,
The ground bar inside the enclosure is a piece of aluminum from a table saw miter track 1/8” thick and I may have to change the location when I will start the wiring
Nicolas
Hello John
I decided after all to post the attached wiring schematic which is my understanding on how to run the wires. I have added an extra ON/OFF switch which is right after the main fuse (AC Power) and the reason is that I may want to work lets say on the computer only and therefore the rest of equipment need not to be on. Basically I follow your schematic but I added all the other equipment which will be controlled from the push buttons enclosure.
Also I want to ask that to my opinion it is possible to have either relay 1 or 2 to turn ON/OFF the Sherline motor if I decide later on to do so. Is this correct?
.
Nicolas
Hi Nicolas ,
Your diagram helps
I was expecting you to use relays 1 &2 to enable the PC to switch on & off the spindle motor and either a vacuum pump if you use a vacuum table for cutting wood or a coolant pump if your cutting metal
the manual switch to isolate the spindle motor is a good idea
to prevent any accident while replacing a cutter
the 6A mains fuse will need uprating to cope with the switch on surge from the 3 power supplies
a 360W PSU will take 3A @ 120V when its in use but fuse to cope with the switch on current could be 3 or 4 times that -( possibly on the label or data sheet)
the motor will take about 3A max and the 36V PSU for the G540 another 2.5 to 3 A
very little current will be needed from the 24V PSU for the relays or the 12V PSU if its just used for the fans on the G540
at a later date , the G540 10V VFD output on terminals 7 ,8 and 9 can replace the speed control potentiometer to give the PC control of the spindle speed
John
PS looking at this data sheet for a 320W PSU ,the inrush current at 120V is 20A !!
Meanwell Power Supply Products
Last edited by john-100; 08-15-2012 at 06:36 AM. Reason: add PS and link to data sheet
Hello John
Should I use a 20A slow blow fuse instead of the 6A?
It is not clear to me how to connect the “Live Controlled by G540 Output 1 or 2” connection to the Sherline motor and I attach here the Sherline connection diagram from the manual you sent me for convenience. Can you please clarify and remember that I will have the VS unit mounted away from the motor.
Also in the future if I decide to use the G540 10V VFD output on terminals 7, 8 and 9 to replace the speed control, where I will make the connections?
Nicolas
Hi Nicolas ,
yes the 20A fuse should be closer to what you need
it will depend on the fuse but a 20A slow blow fuse should be OK with a 300% overload during the switch on surge
the diagram showes the connection between the motor speed control and a PC controlled relay
the G540 VFD drive terminals 7,8 and 9 connect to the P1 , P2 and P3 terminals on the speed control board that the 5K potentiometer is connected to
speed control P1 to G540 terminal 7
P2 to terminal 8
P3 to terminal 9
once I double checked I'll add another diagram
John
ok I will get a 20A slow blow fuse
Thank you for the schematic, you are so good explaining things John, you are like a good teacher!...much appreciated
Just in case its important the Sherline manual you sent me indicates that there are some extra fuses / resistors kits to purchase and so I asked the vendor and here is his reply:
“The Sherline motor/speed control you are getting is a complete wired unit. It is the same unit used on the Sherline machines. The speed control has the correct HP resistor installed. The fuse kits you are reading about are options for the type of speed control unit used (KB Electronics KBIC). Sherline uses the built in thermal circuit breaker in the motor as over current protection for the whole device so they do not use the optional fuse kits from KBIC. (This is why there is an odd number of wires from the speed control to motor.)"
Thank you so much John
Nicolas
Here is a basic question but I’m not sure if it is safe or correct to locate the switch as it’s shown on the attached pic.
Is it ok to wire like this the equipment?
Nicolas
Your switch is in parallel with the incoming power and will either blow the switch or the fuse!
It needs to be in series with the load, not parallel (Black conductor).
Also the switch needs to be rated for the supply voltage and load current.
Al.
Last edited by Al_The_Man; 08-16-2012 at 05:07 PM. Reason: added
CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design
“Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
Albert E.
Hi Nicolas ,
whats the model number for the spindle speed control
does it start with KBIC or KBMM ?
it makes a difference to the terminals used to connect it to the G540
as for your on /off switch circuit its more like this
John
Hi John
I don’t know the model number of the VS unit because I purchased all my electrical and spindle parts from Soigeneris and I went by the name of what I want. I just sent an email to the vendor and as soon I get a reply I will let you know.
Regarding the switch circuit, I remember a few years back reading that on a home lighting circuit you can have the switch at the end of the run and you connect the switch between the black and the white and you put a black tape on the white to indicate that is hot.
Guess my theory was not good LOL and thanks Al and John for correcting me. The reason I was trying it like my schematic is that the bracket which supports the pushbuttons enclosure is only 2”x 3” and if you take out the support bolts there is not enough space left to get all the wires to the enclosure.
Since all switches are in that enclosure, the way you suggested John it means I have to take each cable up to the enclosure (switch) and down again to the load. If that is the only way then I have to re design the enclosure support to provide more space
Nicolas
I think you are referring to for e.g. when a 2 conductor cable is taken down to a switch, say from a light fixture as a switch pair, obviously this pair will consist of 1 blk and 1 white, although the conductor is white, it is actually switching the 'Black' or 'hot' conductor.
The switch is actually in series with the Hot conductor.
Al.
CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design
“Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
Albert E.
Hi John
Here is the reply from the vendor
"It is a KBIC-240 (runs on 120 or 240V)"
You are right Al. I was thinking perhaps its better to get a 120VAC junction box inside the pushbuttons enclosure. This way I get only once a 120VAC cable up there and then I will brunch from this JB to each switch and then go down to each load
Nicolas
Sorry, my Internet connection was down since last night.
I don’t understand what you mean Al but all wiring except the stepper motors, they have to go to the pushbutton enclosure where all switches are to be able to control everything from one location.
So as far as I can see the wiring should be one direction, meaning the wires go to the enclosure just to connect to the switch but then again they have to go down to the load; is this considered bi-direction?
I attach a pic to see my problem. Inside the 2”x 3” aluminum support channel and at the bottom of it there is a 1/2" thick aluminum plate and the channel is attached to the plate with 4 M5 screws. At the center of the 1/2" plate I drilled holes to pass the wires. The 120VAC cable is quite thick so if I have to get this cable up to the enclosure and down to the load (for of them; computer, light, vacuum and spindle) then I don’t have enough space and I will have to either add another 2”x 3” support channel or find another way to support the enclosure. For sure I don’t want to have exposed wires under the enclosure because it will spoil the look
Nicolas
What I meant was, is your spindle intended to be Uni-directional? Because if at some point you consider the need to have a reversing spindle there is a switching procedure for the motor with the KB drives.
Partly shown in the KB manual.
Al.
Last edited by Al_The_Man; 08-17-2012 at 10:41 AM.
CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design
“Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
Albert E.
I know about reversing the spindle and I never understood the reason why you would want to have the spindle reversing. There must be a reason but I’m not aware of it.
In any case right now my spindle will not be reversing
If its not too much of a trouble, could you please let me know both switching procedures so I know about them for the future?
Another point: I have quite a few computer power cables which are all 18 AWG and long enough for my needs (one end plugs to the wall outlet and the other end has this female plug which you plug it on the computer). Are these cables good enough to supply 120VAC to the spindle?
Thank you Al
Nicolas
There a few instances where it is needed, on a mill it would be for rigid or floating tapping or opposite side cutting on a Lathe, just for a couple.
I can dig out the schematic and post it, you have to reverse the DC output to the motor and also close the I1 & I2 inhibit contacts, as this also resets the drive so that the accel comes into play in the case where you may reverse the motor while running in the opposite direction needed.
Al.
CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design
“Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
Albert E.
Hi Nicolas ,
what I've not found in the G540 manual is the the supply current needed to power the G540's VFD circuit
but to avoid needing to use an isolated 12V DC power supply to power the G540's VFD analogue output circuit
this diagram shows the connections between a KBIC speed control and the VFD output on a G540
John