if they don't use ballscrews it's crap.....period.......ballscrews are what CNC is all about.......same could be said for linear ways but is a more exotic solution to moving slides.
Which Is Best?
Hi,
I'm a novice that's about ready to pull the trigger on upgrading my Grizzly G0704 to CNC.
Problem is I know very little about it, & most of what I see available (wide price range aside) seems to be good kits.
So Which is BEST? The more I research the more my brain burns
I like what I saw w/the Roton, but can't find it.
CNC Conversion Kit.com appears to be nice, but I was advised against it...not sure why.
Pro Cut CNC (looks nice) but like most is only a partial kit.
FlashCut CNC seems to have introduced simplicity to a seemingly complicated task, but Very Pricey!...& the list goes on
I'd prefer NOT to fabricate/manufacture the parts as some kits have you do. Just need an affordable & solid setup that works, allowing opportunity to learn the software...not combat poor designs.
Also, just a side note, if anyone does have experience w/FlashCut please help. Their kit doesn't use ball screws cause they claim backlash compensation is built into their software.
Does that even work? What if you'd like to use different sw? Is this entire kit that proprietary?
Thnx in advance
Re: Which Is Best?
if they don't use ballscrews it's crap.....period.......ballscrews are what CNC is all about.......same could be said for linear ways but is a more exotic solution to moving slides.
Re: Which Is Best?
I just went through the same process, although I did not own a G0704 yet.Originally Posted by BigDaddy80
I too liked the ProcutCNC product (w/ the double ball nut option). After talking to Rob at ProcutCNC, I decided to buy the PM25MW mill instead of the G0704, but the ProcutCNC kits for those two mills are essentially identical. Note that Procut is upfront about your G0704 saddle needing to be milled somewhat to ensure clearance for the kit, and I chose to order the PM25MW mill as that modification is not necessary.
While ProcutCNC does not offer the servos and drivers etc for the G0704 / PM25MW as a kit, I did learn that they do install them on G0704 mills so as to offer converted G0704's including CNC as a complete package, so ProcutCNC is very familiar with the process, and sourcing the servos/electronics. You can find a suitable kit to mate with the ProcutCNC ball nut kit at Automation Technologies (AT), here:
https://www.automationtechnologiesin...or-3-axis-kit/
ProcutCNC and AT have a working relationship as AT is also a vendor of the ProcutCNC kit.
Note that none of my purchased equipment has been delivered yet, so I can talk about my selection and buying experience, but not how the components actually perform.
Also, note that the AT kit I linked includes a parallel port breakout board. That means that you need a PC with a parallel port to drive the system, and that may mean using an older PC as parallel ports are generally not part of modern PCs, unless added as an expansion board. If you are choosing to use a system with a parallel port, you may wish to look at LinuxCNC to run the system. If you insist on using a Windows PC, then I can't help.
Of course there are other options for interfacing with a PC (USB or Ethernet), and some systems move the controlling logic away from the PC into a CNC specific box. From what I have seen these are likely to be more expensive and less flexible than a recycled PC with a parallel port..
Last edited by RaderSidetrack; 05-19-2018 at 02:14 AM.
Re: Which Is Best?
I was thinkn along those lines but wasn't sure. So what is your solution? Did you too agonize over this? Any alternate solutions?
I know there'll be a learning curve but I need to do what makes sense...cost & logistically.
Thnx
Re: Which Is Best?
I just went through the same process, although I did not own a G0704 yet.
I too liked the ProcutCNC product (w/ the double ball nut option). After talking to Rob at ProcutCNC, I decided to buy the PM25MW mill instead of the G0704, but the ProcutCNC kits for those two mills are essentially identical. Note that Procut is upfront about your G0704 saddle needing to be milled somewhat to ensure clearance for the kit, and I chose to order the PM25MW mill as that modification is not necessary.
While ProcutCNC does not offer the servos and drivers etc for the G0704 / PM25MW as a kit, I did learn that they do install them on G0704 mills so as to offer converted G0704's including CNC as a complete package, so ProcutCNC is very familiar with the process, and sourcing the servos/electronics. You can find a suitable kit to mate with the ProcutCNC ball nut kit at Automation Technologies (AT), here:
https://www.automationtechnologiesin...or-3-axis-kit/
ProcutCNC and AT have a working relationship as AT is also a vendor of the ProcutCNC kit.
Note that none of my purchased equipment has been delivered yet, so I can talk about my selection and buying experience, but not how the components actually perform.
Also, note that the AT kit I linked includes a parallel port breakout board. That means that you need a PC with a parallel port to drive the system, and that may mean using an older PC as parallel ports are generally not part of modern PCs, unless added as an expansion board. If you are choosing to use a system with a parallel port, you may wish to look at LinuxCNC to run the system. If you insist on using a Windows PC, then I can't help.
Of course there are other options for interfacing with a PC (USB or Ethernet), and some systems move the controlling logic away from the PC into a CNC specific box. From what I have seen these are likely to be more expensive and less flexible than a recycled PC with a parallel port..
I was strongly considering ProCut/AT, but was concerned w/piecing together from multiple sources. Again, FlashCut is atop of my list as well but the no ballscrew thing is screwing w/me...no pun intended.
You're far more knowledgeable than I, so when time permits will you take a look @ FlashCutcnc.com & give your honest opinion? I think if ballscrews can be installed w/o affecting the mounts it would be a solid kit.
And I'm by no means opposed to a pc, I just need sw to be somewhat user friendly. Lastly, how much was the "run ready" kit w/sw? FlashCut (no ballscrews) is $3400
Any guidance given is very much appreciated.
Thnx, GOD Bless
Re: Which Is Best?
I am by no means a Flashcut expert. My take on Flashcut is that is a relatively closed system. By that I mean that the Flashcut software runs on a Windows PC (which does not appeal to me), and talks only to a Flashcut proprietary control/driver box. Anytime you have those things in combination, you are going to pay extra, because there are (fewer) competitors.... when time permits will you take a look @ FlashCutcnc.com & give your honest opinion? I think if ballscrews can be installed w/o affecting the mounts it would be a solid kit.
And I'm by no means opposed to a pc, I just need sw to be somewhat user friendly. Lastly, how much was the "run ready" kit w/sw? FlashCut (no ballscrews) is $3400
So, my choice is to use LinuxCNC, partly because it is community written/supported (AKA 'free'), and is NOT Windows software.
If you are considering Flashcut, make them work for their money. Ask Flashcut why you don't need ballscrews with their system, and what kind of tolerance you should expect with their kit on a G0704. Then see if that is something you can live with, and can afford the price.
If you want better tolerances, or a lower package price, then look for alternatives. When evaluating ball screw upgrade kits, pay attention to the photos of how the steppers mount. Some will clearly be a belt drive from the stepper to the ballnut shaft, while others (like the ProcutCNC kit) are a direct drive. Belts are use for low torque steppers (less expensive steppers & less expensive drivers), but the trade-off is that belts are less precise than direct drives. Its possible that you may never notice the difference - I can't say.
For me, one big plus for the ProcutCNC kit is that they "eat their own dog food"in the sense that ProcutCNC uses their own ballnut kits on complete package CNC machines that they also sell. That tells me that their ball screw product works well enough (with additional hardware (servos/drivers etc) from their 'friends' at Automation Technologies) that they are prepared to support those customers buying a complete CNC machine.
I understand your desire for a "complete" CNC kit from one vendor. I went looking for that too. But what became clear is that there is a significant , built-in "support" cost in complete kit pricing. That is because the closer a manufacturer/vendor comes to a "complete" CNC kit, the more support calls/costs they are going to have to support with their pricing.
So ... decide what kind of support you are prepared to pay for, and then choose a vendor. For me, I am willing to split my purchase among 3 vendors (counting the mill itself), but the trade-off is a lower level of vendor support but also a lower price. I'm retired - my time may not be "free", but I'm not looking for a 'production' solution, and can afford the time to figure out the occasional kink that may come up.
Let me note here that the choices I made are not the "cheapest" options available -- one can see that from Ebay listings. While I buy plenty of things via Ebay, and some of those items are direct from Chinese vendors, I was not comfortable with that for this scale of purchase.
Re: Which Is Best?
I'm amazed at the ignorance of some people suggesting that backlash can be eliminated with software.......if you haven't got balls crews in your CNC machine you WILL get backlsah no matter how the system compensates for it with software.
It must be remembered that the common mode of CNC machining is climb milling.......any backladh and you will get a dig in with the cutter....and that applies to cutting diams too ....you will get diams with flats on the opposite sides.
Ian.
Re: Which Is Best?
Thnx Ian, you guys are forcing me to use my head & stick to what I know. Funny, I posed that same question & they (FC), insisted it works
& is widely used throughout the CNC industry. I argued that my New machine had 0.003 backlash from the factory & no sw can make that disappear.
I was then told that upon setup, FC calculates this backlash then automatically compensates/adjust. And you know what?...that's a convincing argument except, the problem w/backlash is it's not consistent
So they eventually got tired of talking to me.
I'm open to suggestions.
Thnx again
Re: Which Is Best?
You're right Radar, I had that argument w/FC about the whole backlash thing. By the end of that call I think I was the fly they wanted to swat....read my reply to Handlewank.
So here's where I am, definitely going w/PC for ballscrews, mounts, etc. Found what appear to be some really nice double nut ballscrews on Ebay, but w/o mounts.
And how can you not appreciate AT? But unless you tell me no I'm bout to pull the trigger on this kit 2nite....take a peek
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Free-ship-3....c100005.m1851
I too am retired & saving a few $ is good & wise. Unless of course its not well spent.
I greatly appreciate your direction & I'm sure to draw on you some more.
Just a quik Shout Out to all that have commented, replied, etc. Your post have all been helpful, Thnx
Re: Which Is Best?
I see that the inductance of both models of the Ebay steppers you linked are considerably higher than the inductance of the Automation Technologies steppers that I linked. I'm not an expert on stepper inductance, but as I understand it, higher inductance is not desirable. Google "stepper inductance" and read some of the results.
Re: Which Is Best?
Radar my friend you've done it again. You just made my Christmas List
I was minutes away from making a BIG mistake! I'll be stick'n to what is tried & proven, AT & PC.
Even tho I found a comparable kit (matching specs), $100 doesn't warrant the risk.
So I'll grab this stuff & let you know when I can go farther.
Looking Forward
