Machining After The Apocalypse

[Well_Armed]

Hello all. This is my first post here as a long time lurker who has been very appreciative of the vast knowledge contained within these forums.

My post's title is based on a long project that I have begun recently. Namely, to create a very capable machine shop in the manner of a true "prepper" that would be capable of running as-needed for as long as possible without any outside support. In essence, what I am tasked with doing is creating a self-sustaining machine shop full of machines, tools, and materials suitable for the capabilities to produce whatever part(s) that one may need for myriad purposes, all under the premise of no outside services available under any circumstances. I.E. a situation akin to a machine shop in the middle of the desert, with no access to the internet, no phone, no outside vendors to call for supplies or new tools or replacement parts of any kind.

My my question to the board is rather simple: what would you do with upwards of $50K to design a dream shop under the aforementioned premise? What types of machines would you buy? What types and quantities of tooling would you stock up on? What would you make sure you had the best of, and quantities to assure you'd never run out? Remember, you will have a standalone shop, no way to run to Home Depot, no outside vendors to replace a broken end mill or to fix a machine part, etc. You will also be expected to machine everything under the sun (within reason obviously) out of all sorts of materials such as aluminum, steel, even titanium. And you'll also be expected to be able to do so indefinitely, and may be required to learn as you go. For example, you'd need to machine parts for ailing automobiles, gunsmithing, etc. etc.

I thought this this topic would be interesting to a large number of you here on many levels. I am not so much interested in about specific brands, rather a broader discussion of types. As it stands now, we have an empty shop room, with power, and backup generator power, all in a secure location. What would you put into this shop in anticipation of and preparation for a post-apocalyptic scenario? Specifics on all generalizations would be appreciated. Go to town and thanks for participating!

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[hoffmannm]

wth why not....

My my question to the board is rather simple: what would you do with upwards of $50K to design a dream shop under the aforementioned premise? What types of machines would you buy? What types and quantities of tooling would you stock up on? What would you make sure you had the best of, and quantities to assure you'd never run out? Remember, you will have a standalone shop, no way to run to Home Depot, no outside vendors to replace a broken end mill or to fix a machine part, etc. You will also be expected to machine everything under the sun (within reason obviously) out of all sorts of materials such as aluminum, steel, even titanium. And you'll also be expected to be able to do so indefinitely, and may be required to learn as you go. For example, you'd need to machine parts for ailing automobiles, gunsmithing, etc. etc.

Hopefully I had a lot more than 50k or something good to trade.... but I'd get... 1) knee mill 2) engine lathe 3) bench grinder 4) tool grinder 5) some kind of saw maybe horizontal 6) as much coolant as I can get 7) you'd have to find a way to get your stock material to make parts 8) machinery's handbook 9) all the tools of a normal machinist toolbox times 5... files, indicators, etc 10) Starrett inspection table and tools like a height gauge 11) a couple computers with mastercam and solid works 12) air compressors to run everything 13) proper electrical 14) safety stuff 15) all the proper collets and tool holding stuff 16) as many end mills, drills, inserts as I can get, etc 17) cnc mill and lathe but by this point were way over 50k 18) all the other little stuff I forgot...

[silverslammer]

Sounds great, but I wouldn't be able to buy one machine I want with only 50K.

[awerby]

I agree it sounds like a rather low budget for surviving the apocalypse as a machine shop, given that many better-financed machine shops have gone under without any apocalypse being required. Start by reading Dave Gingery's books on how to build machinery from scratch: David J. Gingery Publishing Once you set up the charcoal foundry, you can produce the basic castings for lathes, mills, etc.

I don't think it would be too practical to think about CNC for these tools; it's going to be hard enough to keep any kind of motors running, much less computers. Think in terms of a 19th-century setup, where you've got one big shaft running down the length of the shop (from a waterwheel, steam engine, or a bunch of guys on stationary bikes) and long flat belts taking power off that. You'll need a tool-grinder of some sort, since you won't be able to get tooling. Basic blacksmithing equipment might be more useful than machining, but the forge and the foundry are pretty closely related. I don't think the machines listed above will last very long without spares - the air compressors will need periodic rebuilding; the bandsaws will need blades, the generators will need gas, and the computers will crap out like old computers always do. If you can keep going with the technology of 1890 or so, you'll be doing better than your neighbors (if any). Stock up on canned food and ammo...

[underthetire]

Lets face it, you won't need precision parts. There would be plenty of autoparts around, since fuel would run out. Id think more like cutting torches, gas for brazing/welding/ riveting tools, that kind of mid 1850's type stuff to fix manual farming implements. Now if we're talking really far fetched like Zombie plagues etc.. reloading equipment.

[handlewanker]

A minefield for the Zombies?.....hee hee......you also need the full facilities of a hospital if you're all alone when the Zombs attack.

You could go deep underground and be insulated from the heat as well as the cold......flooding is a worry.......you'll need clean water too and lots of it, so a bore hole and filtration is a must.

I'd invest in a steam generator unit that can run on wood fuel or dung if you can find lots of it.
Ian.

[hanermo]

Depends on the perspective.
Are you trying to fix one farm ? or make shotguns for the tribe in qty 200 ?

Manual machines - maybe. If you have electricity you can have pcs == cnc.
For 50k you can have a fully fitted workshop, with used machines, but you need to define your need to pick the right tools.

How long do you hope to last ?
Ie hss end mills are easily sharpened, but 3000 inserts might last you 100 years. CCMTs cost 3 each, less in qty, say 1$ each.
If you look at a 30 year timeframe- how many grinder wheels will you need ?
Bearings ? Lube ?
Sharpen bandsaw blades ?


If you have metal and bearings and time and basic tools, you can make anything including a cnc mill.
(I did).

The volume defines what you need in terms of machines and cosumables.
Old farms were self sufficient, but not productive.

[Kevin Taylor]

Power to run your equipment would be the first step, a genset capable of making power to run essentials {Lights, Heat, AC, Machines ventilation. welders.} Raw materials you can do a lot with a junk pile with enough time Welding consumables ,Gas ,Wire ,plasma torch parts. Tool Grinder is a must .
Being self sufficient is the most important thing you wont know who to trust or trade with. that being said you might be able to trade welding for a chicken or pig. Clean Water is going to be the most important thing and if you are dependent on a municipality have a back up plan. I just experienced a month long water boil order because of the City's lack of preparedness for a flood Also the Electric Co. is near third world condition and power is not very dependable . I always figured If you have equipment, power to run it and raw materials you can barter your way along for quite a while. Most important Liquor, Vittles,& Ammo all can be used as currency and will be necessary to survive some faith in humanity and a first aid kit would be helpful { Duct Tape and Neosporne }

[handlewanker]

I wouldn't worry about all that survival prepping BS....when the apocalypse comes the best you can hope for is enough time to kiss your ass goodbye...…...the World as you knew it will not be a pretty place and if you believe in the hereafter that is where you'll find me.
Ian.

[Jim Dawson]

An old thread, but I'll play.

Assuming a setback to the 1800s level of infrastructure.

Energy Source: Most important because nothing is going to work if you can't power it.
For the short term a diesel (1960's multi fuel military) generator. Maybe a couple of them, one smaller portable.
Wind turbine
Water power
Animal power
Steam power
Battery banks. Tesla battery packs?
As much inverter hardware as you can scrounge up.

Machine tools: All from 1940s to 1970s, easily convertible to alternate power sources, line shaft maybe?
No CNC equipment, unless easily convertible to manual operation after the control system fails.
Horizontal mill
Lathe, 16x60 or so. Maybe a larger one and a smaller one.
Vertical mill
Tool & cutter grinder
Large drill press
As much tooling as you can scrounge for all of the above.

Other Equipment:
Books on every relevant subject, old ''how to'' books
Blacksmithing equipment
Grinders
Welding equipment.
Electrical test and repair equipment
Distilling equipment for fuel (alcohol)
Manual pumps for pumping out fuel tanks. Gasoline has a short shelf life, but diesel/kerosene is good for a long time.
Lifting equipment.

Cutting Tools: As much as you can scrounge up
End mills
Plain milling cutters
Gear cutters
Drill bits
Lathe bits, both HSS and carbide
Taps & dies

Shop Space:
Should be mobile if possible.
Semi-tractor and trailer/container?

Raw materials: Most of this can be scrounged post-apocalypse
Scrounge as needed.
A good stock of fasteners of all types.
Lubricating products.

I could think of more but I need to make some chips.

[metalmayhem]

I'd cruise around and map all the local machine shops , then I'd wait until the apocalypse happens then go collecting equipment . Chances are the shop owner would be dead unless they prepared as well ,. Beats shelling out 50 g for something that may not happen

[he1957]

Agree with the old thread but hey.

First questions are would you want to survive and what would be the state of the local area after such an event? It's unlikely other survivors would be as civilised to be ready to use a barter exchange system with such chaos, more likely it would be those with the powers to take stuff would try to do that anyway.

You can't eat or drink money, gold or other monetary based exchange systems so food and water along with other sanitary considerations would come first. Stored food (cans, dried foods) will only last so long. What are the plans to address that? If an apocalypse did occur, what animals for food will survive if any?

As far as machinery goes there would be a lot of that lying around from all the now defunct shops and manufacturing facilities so you'd need lifting equipment and transport to collect it. Tooling for same should be available from the sources but not necessarily interchangeable between different makers machines for some of it.

Power is always a problem. Modern battery powered tools such as drills, sanders, grinders etc would be a must and can be charged from solar/wind or small hydro (if available) and these would likely be needed to collect the machinery and other items. Raiding sports stores for firearms/ammo etc. To some level of success you might be able to run heavier manual equipment off the battery drills (lathe, mill, drill press, sander etc).

What do you plan to make and would this really be necessary? Staying alive would be more difficult so farming machines to help grow food would be important. Digging, cultivating and harvesting by hand is not easy.

Oh yeah, a few good chainsaws (chain sharpening gear) and a log splitter for firewood would be a must. Bows and arrows for when the ammo runs out. The old adage, keep the last bullet for yourself might be a thing to consider.

There's a lot of machinery out there to scavenge in such a situation so are we talking some 50+ years later? Will you survive that long?

Rather unpleasant topic really :-)