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  1. #41
    Member sdantonio's Avatar
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    I write most of my code by hand in notepad and just save it as *.html

    One trick, if you see a site you like then you can often go into "view/page source" (that's in mozilla, IE has some equivlent command) and see how that person wrote the code. If you find a site that is similar to what you want to go then you can save their code and start with theirs and modify it from there do make it exactly what you want. Suprisingly, the only sites I have found that block you from looking at their code are some of the porn sites. Otherwise it's pretty much open source.

    If you do this and find a site that has pages and pages of ugly looking crap for code, most of which does nothing, then it was written using one of the microsoft products (they stick in pages of useless crap into the code).

    I hope this works, if so then you may recognise this code, just a warning it's pretty complicated (look for the words believe it or not):

    <code>
    </div> <div> </div> </div> </td> </tr> </table> <!-- / user info --> </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="alt1"> <!-- message, attachments, sig --> <!-- icon and title --> <div class="smallfont"> <img class="inlineimg" src="images/icons/icon6.gif" alt="Cool" border="0" /> </div> <hr size="1" style="color:#000000" /> <!-- / icon and title --> <!-- message --> <div>Believe it or not, the Club's web site was written using "<a href="http://www.editpadpro.com/" target="_blank">EditPad</a>" a freeware text editor capable of editing 1000 pages simultaniously! That way I could make changes on a global level! Saved much time!<br /> <br />

    The host is <a href="http://signup.powweb.com/powweb-bin/referer.cgi?account_id=38705" target="_blank">PowWeb </a> they have free setup of any domain name you choose, as long as it is available! So the name is registered through the host! Makes things real easy, as I pay one bill! The host is $7.77 / month and the domain registration is $15/year.<br /> <br />
    I have tried other Hosts, but none have the professionalism of <a href="http://signup.powweb.com/powweb-bin/referer.cgi?account_id=38705" target="_blank">PowWeb</a>! The package of features available for free exceeds others in every way! They use "Load Balancing" on their servers, so the little sites do not choke up the more demanding ones! The club's site gets an enormas amount of traffic, and its easily seen with the <a href="http://bugclub.org/webstats/" target="_blank">Statistics page</a> that comes with the package!</div> <!-- / message --> <!-- edit note --> <div class="smallfont"> <hr size="1" style="color:#000000" /> <em>

    Last edited by widgitmaster : Today at <span class="time">07:06 PM</span>.
    </em> </div> <!-- / edit note --> <div align="right"> <!-- controls --> <a href="newreply.php?do=newreply&amp;p=179607"><img src="/forums/images/buttons/quote.gif" alt="Reply With Quote" border="0" /></a> <a href="newreply.php?do=newreply&amp;p=179607" onclick="return qr(179607);"><img src="/forums/images/buttons/quickreply.gif" alt="Quick reply to this message" border="0" /></a> <!-- / controls --> </div> <!-- message, attachments, sig --> </td> </tr> </table> <!-- post 179607 popup menu --> <div class="vbmenu_popup" id="postmenu_179607_menu" style="display:none"> <table cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" border="0"> <tr> <td class="thead">widgitmaster</td> </tr> <tr><td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="member.php?userid=13901">View Public Profile</a></td></tr> <tr><td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="private.php?do=newpm&amp;userid=13901">Send a private message to widgitmaster</a></td></tr> <tr><td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="sendmessage.php?do=mailmember&amp;u=13901">S end email to widgitmaster</a></td></tr> <tr><td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="http://bugclub.org/">Visit widgitmaster's homepage!</a></td></tr> <tr><td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="search.php?do=finduser&amp;userid=13901">Fin d all posts by widgitmaster</a></td></tr> <tr><td class="vbmenu_option"><a href="profile.php?do=addlist&amp;userlist=buddy&am p;u=13901">Add widgitmaster to Your Buddy List</a></td></tr> </table> </div> <!-- / post 179607 popup menu --> </div> </div> </div> </div> <!-- / close content container --> <!-- / post #179607 --> </div> <!-- start content table --> <!-- open content container --> <div align="center"> <div class="page" style="width:100%; text-align:left"> <div style="padding:0px 5px 0px 5px"> <!-- / start content table --> <!-- controls below postbits --> <table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="100%"> <tr valign="top"> <td class="smallfont"><a href="newreply.php?do=newreply&amp;noquote=1&amp;p =179607"><img src="/forums/images/buttons/reply.gif" alt="Reply" border="0" /></a></td> <td align="right"> <div class="pagenav" align="right"> <table class="tborder" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1" border="0"> <tr> <td class="vbmenu_control" style="font-weight:normal"><!--<img src="/forums/images/misc/multipage.gif" alt="Showing results 31 to 40 of 40 (3 pages)" /> -->Page 3 of 3</td> <td class="alt1"><a class="smallfont" href="showthread.php?t=22551&amp;page=2&amp;pp=15" title="Prev Page - Results 16 to 30 of 40">&lt;</a></td> <td class="alt1"><a class="smallfont" href="showthread.php?t=22551&amp;page=1&amp;pp=15" title="Show results 1 to 15 of 40">1</a></td> <td class="alt1"><a class="smallfont" href="showthread.php?t=22551&amp;page=2&amp;pp=15" title="Show results 16 to 30 of 40">2</a></td> <td class="alt2"><span class="smallfont" title="Showing results 31 to 40 of 40"><strong>3</strong></span></td> </tr> </table> </div> </td> </tr> </table> <!-- / controls below postbits --> <br /> <div class="smallfont" align="center"> <strong>&laquo;</strong> <a href="showthread.php?t=22551&amp;goto=nextoldest"> Previous Thread</a>
    </code>

    If you cut it to small you can always nail another piece on the end, but if you cut it to big... then what the hell you gonna do?

    Steven


  2. #42
    Member sdantonio's Avatar
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    well, that didn't work, sorry

    If you cut it to small you can always nail another piece on the end, but if you cut it to big... then what the hell you gonna do?

    Steven


  3. #43
    Banned diarmaid's Avatar
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    Thanks for that.

    Im gonna have a look at PowWeb after work today.

    I taught myself HTML back in the 'dark ages' about eight years ago using the source view. I didn't realise that MS products added in a lot of crap, but I'm not surprised. I might just write it all myself in Notepad and give Frontpage a miss until I really need it. It'd be fun to brush up on the language.



  4. #44

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by diarmaid
    I might just write it all myself in Notepad and give Frontpage a miss until I really need it. It'd be fun to brush up on the language.
    Notepad has a 32k max file size, it drove me nuts!

    www.widgitmaster.com
    It's not what you take away, it's what you are left with that counts!


  5. #45
    Registered datacop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diarmaid
    Thanks for that.

    Im gonna have a look at PowWeb after work today.

    I taught myself HTML back in the 'dark ages' about eight years ago using the source view. I didn't realise that MS products added in a lot of crap, but I'm not surprised. I might just write it all myself in Notepad and give Frontpage a miss until I really need it. It'd be fun to brush up on the language.
    Frontpage is excellent for prototyping your site, establishing a good look and feel... it is WYSIWYG environment so layouts and things can be experimented with...

    Yes, it's not good for final code and production work.. but for prototyping it's handy.

    A good alternative to notepad is Ultraedit. It's a full featured editer with key word and syntax highlighting, upload and publishing capabilities.. etc, etc, etc.



  6. #46
    Member sdantonio's Avatar
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    Macromedia and adobe have a few products out for writing complicated HTML and DTML. I don't remember what they are off the top of my head. You might be able to download them on a 30 day trial and get everything cranked out and then maintain things by hand after that.

    Regarding microsoft. do a quick experiment. open word, write something simple like "this is a test" and save it as an html file. Then reopen it in notepad and look at it. it will have about 5 pages of crap added (may be I'm exagerating a bit. It may only be 4-1/2 pages)

    If you cut it to small you can always nail another piece on the end, but if you cut it to big... then what the hell you gonna do?

    Steven


  7. #47
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    Done as stated by sdantonia. I only removed the tags so it would show in the post. Frontpage version is at bottom.



    This is in Word

    html xmlns="urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice"
    xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:word"
    xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"

    head
    meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
    meta name=ProgId content=Word.Document
    meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 9"
    meta name=Originator content="Microsoft Word 9"
    link rel=File-List href="./This%20is%20a%20test2_files/filelist.xml"
    title>This is a test</title
    !--[if gte mso 9]><xml
    oocumentProperties
    o:Author>DEWAYNE</o:Author
    o:LastAuthor>DEWAYNE</o:LastAuthor
    o:Revision>1</o:Revision
    o:TotalTime>0</o:TotalTime
    o:Created>2006-07-25T15:17:00Z</o:Created
    o:LastSaved>2006-07-25T15:17:00Z</o:LastSaved
    o:Pages>1</o:Pages
    o:Company>Harlow Industries</o:Company
    o:Lines>1</o:Lines
    o:Paragraphs>1</o:Paragraphs
    o:Version>9.2812</o:Version
    oocumentProperties
    /xml><![endif]--
    style
    !--
    /* Style Definitions */
    p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
    mso-style-parent:"";
    margin:0in;
    margin-bottom:.0001pt;
    mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
    font-size:12.0pt;
    font-family:"Times New Roman";
    mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
    @page Section1
    size:8.5in 11.0in;
    margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;
    mso-header-margin:.5in;
    mso-footer-margin:.5in;
    mso-paper-source:0;
    div.Section1
    page:Section1;
    -->
    /style
    /head

    body lang=EN-US style='tab-interval:.5in'>

    div class=Section1>

    p class=MsoNormal>This is a test/p

    /div

    /body

    /html





    This is in Frontpage

    html

    head
    meta http-equiv="Content-Language" content="en-us"
    meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage 5.0"
    meta name="ProgId" content="FrontPage.Editor.Document"
    meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
    title this is a test/title
    head

    body

    this is a test

    body

    html


    Harlow



  8. #48
    Member sdantonio's Avatar
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    I have to admit that after seeing all the crap word throws in I didn't even bother with front page myself. I had been told by some of the people I know who used to write web sites professionally that front page was just as bad as word (before they exported all those jobs over seas).

    Either they fixed it or my sources were somewhat biased against microsoft. Not that you'd ever meet someone with and anti-microsoft bias... would you?

    Maybe it's not quite 5 pages, but all that extra stuff word throws in does add up as you start writing miltiple page documents. And it's anoying as hell then you have to go back through it and edit the page by hand.

    Everything in the meta part of the head is optional and is usually used for key words.

    If you cut it to small you can always nail another piece on the end, but if you cut it to big... then what the hell you gonna do?

    Steven


  9. #49
    Banned diarmaid's Avatar
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    Wow, thats some amount of crap up above, and all for a tiny bit of text. Sites made with microsoft software must take forever and a day to load!
    I wasn't aware of the kilobyte limit in Notepad but it should still be ok for my 'brushing up'.
    That UltraEdit looks good, I've seen a few similar products online. Do you think the $99 for the UltraEdit Studio is worth it, or is the $39 for the regular UltraEdit fairly good by itself?



  10. #50
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    sdantonio. That's an old version of FrontPage. Knowing Microsoft, they wouldn't have fixed it. Only made it worse. I am not a MicroSoft fan, but, I'm not an Ebay fan either, and I use both. I use and like the Macromedia Suite myself but originaly started with FrontPage.

    diarmaid. You must not have seen the Frontpage version at the bottom. It's clean. As for load time. Text transfers and loads almost immediately. It's images and improper use of tables / java that slow a site down.

    Using a Text Editor to create a web site makes no since to me unless maybe you can type 110 words a minute. Me, I'm in the 25-30 wpm range so I would rather hit a few buttons / icons and have my tables and menus generated in seconds rather than spending forever typing code. Do a basic table or page layout in Frontpage and then go to Notepad and see how long it takes you to type it in.

    Harlow



  11. #51
    Member sdantonio's Avatar
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    Try this program. I have always liked it and found it easy to use. They have a 30 day free trial and you would be amaized at how much stuff you can put together in 30 days.

    http://www.adobe.com/products/dreamweaver/

    then use the text editor to maintain it afterwards.

    There are also some freeware and inexpensive shareware programs on 2cows, some of which is quite good

    http://www.tucows.com/Windows/DevelopmentWebAuthoring/

    also look under "design tools" on 2cows

    If you cut it to small you can always nail another piece on the end, but if you cut it to big... then what the hell you gonna do?

    Steven


  12. #52
    Member sdantonio's Avatar
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    Oh, forgot a small comment of the 30 day free trial.

    Try it on your computer for 30 days...
    then try it at work for 30 days...
    then try it on the wifes/girlfriends computer for 30 days.

    that was you'll really be able to get a lot done.

    If you cut it to small you can always nail another piece on the end, but if you cut it to big... then what the hell you gonna do?

    Steven


  13. #53
    Banned diarmaid's Avatar
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    Thanks all. Yes Harlow, I mixed up the Word and the Frontpage HTML examples. Frontpage looks ok.
    That 30day trial for DW looks very good. I'll certainly give it a go. Thanks all.
    L8rs.



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