Are 3D printed metal components going to replace milling?


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    Default Are 3D printed metal components going to replace milling?

    I saw a 3D metal printer yesterday. It was printing complex aluminum parts using an aluminum spool that was melted by a laser. It was Amazing! The future....only it was now..... The finished parts looked like regular CNC milled metal parts.

    Do you guys have a view on how far away this is from becoming mainstream and a viable alternative to CNC milling?

    I like the idea of being able to make metal parts without the chip mess, noise, expense of end mills and toolholders etc.

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    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are 3D printed metal components going to replace milling?

    I suspect in a couple of decades additive fabrication will surpass subtractive fabrication. The technology is improving daily, and be will mainstream in time. Will it ever completely replace subtractive fabrication? No, I don't think so. There is a place for both technologies.

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


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    Member mactec54's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are 3D printed metal components going to replace milling?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goemon View Post
    I saw a 3D metal printer yesterday. It was printing complex aluminum parts using an aluminum spool that was melted by a laser. It was Amazing! The future....only it was now..... The finished parts looked like regular CNC milled metal parts.

    Do you guys have a view on how far away this is from becoming mainstream and a viable alternative to CNC milling?

    I like the idea of being able to make metal parts without the chip mess, noise, expense of end mills and toolholders etc.
    Keep dreaming, it won't happen in your lifetime, all of these types of printing machines, are only good for doing prototypes, which still need machining after printing, the same as 3D plastic printers won't replace injection molding, they take too long to produce a part, to make them cost effective, for doing prototypes they are great for any manufacture have

    They have been printing metal parts for a number of years, they even do jet engine parts in Inconel

    Mactec54


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    Member awerby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are 3D printed metal components going to replace milling?

    Direct printing in metal is getting better and cheaper all the time. But it's still a long way from replacing CNC for most jobs. If it's a relatively small
    but critical part of an expensive assembly, with a geometry that's too complex for milling, then printing is a viable method of producing it right now. But size is an issue here, as is cost. The process requires very expensive machinery and few of these machines can build large parts. But some of them build precisely enough that post-build machining is not necessary, or is a lot simpler than machining the whole part would be. Another alternative, that's a lot cheaper, is to build parts in a wax-like resin, and use a lost resin casting process to produce them in metal. There are also machines that build molds directly in sand held together with a refractory binder, into which molten metal can be poured.

    [FONT=Verdana]Andrew Werby[/FONT]
    [URL="http://www.computersculpture.com/"]Website[/URL]


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    Default Re: Are 3D printed metal components going to replace milling?

    No one is ever going to convince that these printed parts have the same structural integrity as their forged and machined counterparts.



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    Default Re: Are 3D printed metal components going to replace milling?

    .....and a guy who was very up to date with his technology once stated with conviction...…." I expect that there will only ever be a few computers needed that someone will use to do a job"...….he was someone in authority who worked for Microsoft I think....can't remember the actual quote.

    Anything that can be dreamed of can become a reality if enough people can see it's potential.

    It doesn't take much thought to realise that if you have a casting there is only a bit of it that actually needs machining.....for the most part the body is as cast.

    I think that would apply to a printed object in metal too.....only machine if necessary where it's needed...….the rest is just infrastructure...…...that would cut out a whole lot of pattern making and casting equipment, something most of us don't get to do or want to get involved in.

    A casting is not an accurate item once it cools down...….whereas a printed metal item would be so I think...….the amount of heating would not be present.

    A lot depends on the volume.....too early to think of the future trends, but I think that the ability to draw up a part in CAD and send it to a printer to get a finished part in a short while is awesome.
    Ian.



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    Default Re: Are 3D printed metal components going to replace milling?

    " I expect that there will only ever be a few computers needed that someone will use to do a job"

    "I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
    -- Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943

    Cheers
    Roger



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    Default Re: Are 3D printed metal components going to replace milling?

    Quote Originally Posted by handlewanker View Post
    .....and a guy who was very up to date with his technology once stated with conviction...…." I expect that there will only ever be a few computers needed that someone will use to do a job"...….he was someone in authority who worked for Microsoft I think....can't remember the actual quote.

    Anything that can be dreamed of can become a reality if enough people can see it's potential.

    It doesn't take much thought to realise that if you have a casting there is only a bit of it that actually needs machining.....for the most part the body is as cast.

    I think that would apply to a printed object in metal too.....only machine if necessary where it's needed...….the rest is just infrastructure...…...that would cut out a whole lot of pattern making and casting equipment, something most of us don't get to do or want to get involved in.

    A casting is not an accurate item once it cools down...….whereas a printed metal item would be so I think...….the amount of heating would not be present.

    A lot depends on the volume.....too early to think of the future trends, but I think that the ability to draw up a part in CAD and send it to a printer to get a finished part in a short while is awesome.
    Ian.
    You need an understanding of the process, they have been sintering metal before you where born, this is just another, way of sintering metal and can produce any shape you want, without having a mold, it take hours to produce a plastic part, metal is even a longer process, the process is no more accurate than casting, still has shrinkage and vestige, so if the parts being made need any accuracy then machining is required after heat treating the part, just the same as any cast part

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Are 3D printed metal components going to replace milling?

    I suppose that depends on what you mean by "any" accuracy. Digital Metal, for example, a Swedish company that makes small intricate parts using a build and sinter process, says that their parts have a resolution of up to 35 microns, their machines build in layers as small as 42 microns, and that their overall dimensional accuracy is .5%: https://all3dp.com/interview-with-di...inted-objects/

    While that might not match the tolerances for the best precision CNC machines, it's not too shabby, and these processes are still evolving.

    [FONT=Verdana]Andrew Werby[/FONT]
    [URL="http://www.computersculpture.com/"]Website[/URL]


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    Default Re: Are 3D printed metal components going to replace milling?

    Quote Originally Posted by awerby View Post
    I suppose that depends on what you mean by "any" accuracy. Digital Metal, for example, a Swedish company that makes small intricate parts using a build and sinter process, says that their parts have a resolution of up to 35 microns, their machines build in layers as small as 42 microns, and that their overall dimensional accuracy is .5%: https://all3dp.com/interview-with-di...inted-objects/

    While that might not match the tolerances for the best precision CNC machines, it's not too shabby, and these processes are still evolving.
    That's what they say, they are trying to sell machines, this process has a 20% shrinkage rate, this is the hardest part to control, just the shrinkage alone is very hard to control on larger parts, small parts you have the same shrinkage problem, but not so difficult to control, because the part is small, all matting surfaces still need machining, no matter what process they use, or how accurate there process is

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Are 3D printed metal components going to replace milling?

    so a dimensional accuracy of .5%, that means a 100mm dimension will be give or take half a mm? sounds like it needs to get at least 10 times that accurate to be anywhere near not needing post machining, and still not great.



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    Default Re: Are 3D printed metal components going to replace milling?

    Additive machining (a fancy term for 3D printing) does have some very real advantages in some cases. NASA and various companies have been 3D printing titanium rocket engine parts - very big ones too. Conventional machining one of these can take several years and cost a fortune in metal and machinery as the various parts are mainly (large) empty shapes.

    To be sure, 3D printing titanium (with a sintering laser) is going to incur a rather big up-front cost, but you could almost cover that by the savings in titanium metal alone. My understanding is that the strength of the laser-sintered titanium is close enough to that of bulk metal - which figures when you consider what a laser beam can do. And you can of course pick your alloy.

    Bit too expensive for me though...

    Cheers
    Roger



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    Default Re: Are 3D printed metal components going to replace milling?

    LOL...…..yes, sometimes you gotta just admire the technology without actually thinking of getting deeply involved in it...…….I admire rocket technology in going to the stars or beyond, but I watch Star Trek to get my buzz as that is much simpler (and more realistic)...….someone else doing the hard bit to put you in the picture with all the latest gadget you could not imagine.

    Back in the good old days when carbon steel cutting tools were state of the art, I think anyone who suggested that an alloy of various metals sintered together by force and heat would work better would have been shown the door...………..I have to admire the early attempts to bore out cannons and steam engine cylinders to get a better rounder hole etc.

    No matter how much contraction you get after cooling by laying consecutive layers of metal dust and melting it together with a laser, the process, like casting, will no doubt allow for that factor...…...secondary handling by machining where necessary is just par for the course.

    You couldn't dial up a supplier who casts metal objects from a pattern and order a single part that you created in CAD without a huge cost and time outlay...….......I can admire the technology required without wanting to go down that path.
    Ian..



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    Default Re: Are 3D printed metal components going to replace milling?

    You couldn't dial up a supplier who casts metal objects from a pattern and order a single part that you created in CAD without a huge cost and time outlay
    Just so. Today there are companies which are happy to 3D print a single metal part at nearly full metal strength for you. They seem to be doing a thriving business.

    I have used 'selective laser sintering' myself for a client, but not in metal. It was cheaper and a LOT faster to order another couple of parts that way to continue the research before committing to molds. That was years ago.

    Cheers
    Roger



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    Default Re: Are 3D printed metal components going to replace milling?

    The rockets that are made here are mostly done by a 3D printer, and yes they launch satellites into outer spaces from NZ

    <img src="https://ivxo1q-dm2305.files.1drv.com/y4mENMmTr_Cabc7pR0FUdB6gtbADq2JbuG4_rGy0eBQvLJx19pTi6TqMUIJN0xgOyDIc0gWoxYhS38HpbSTFGdfaK-o42IOU6jczrhDpfpCOTNGL1X6hvZCbgj0y35gqmq1YGTrWwShYGV-C7lXA2esy0Pi_WfnBSyroDLSGXwce4uSr1U7op7srdi78rispHCa_K4aFlTlJPVkkNWMfgh_Tg?width=60&height=60&cropmode=none" width="60" height="60" />

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    Default Re: Are 3D printed metal components going to replace milling?

    Quote Originally Posted by RCaffin View Post
    You couldn't dial up a supplier who casts metal objects from a pattern and order a single part that you created in CAD without a huge cost and time outlay
    Just so. Today there are companies which are happy to 3D print a single metal part at nearly full metal strength for you. They seem to be doing a thriving business.

    I have used 'selective laser sintering' myself for a client, but not in metal. It was cheaper and a LOT faster to order another couple of parts that way to continue the research before committing to molds. That was years ago.

    Cheers
    Roger
    That is the whole idea of metal sintering by 3D printing, it has made it so you can have a ( 1 ) off part, and more of the same if you have deep pockets or good project funding, there are some that have moved it even a step further, and are trying to bring it to the hobbyist level starting at around $100,000.00 for a complete setup, a good video below, even using a mig welder, this is what hobby guys do, they find a different way to do things, that does not cost much to do, this is metal to metal, no after process just machining

    The first video, you need to open it shows a mig welder being used

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=_Dy-2F81DWA



    Mactec54


  17. #17

    Default Re: Are 3D printed metal components going to replace milling?

    I spoke with a guy who prints wheel uprights for a small airplane manufacturer. They also machine the same upright. The printed upright is about 15% lighter, is the same strength, but costs 100% more. For very high performance applications the printed upright is employed. As the cost lowers for additive manufacturing, I think it is feasible to believe that at some point they will no longer make the machined upright. It's just a matter of time until the costs are similar.



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    Default Re: Are 3D printed metal components going to replace milling?

    The one I saw was being used by NASA (or one of their suppliers anyway) to be able to produce parts in space as needed. Their machine doubled as a recycling machine so it could turn old metal or plastic parts back into spool for new parts. Very cool indeed!

    The 3D printed aluminum parts I saw came out ready to use. They were perfect and they were complex parts too.

    They described a process I didn't fully understand but the highlights were that the laser worked it's magic to arrange the particles in the desired formation for maximum strength (or whatever the desired properties might be).

    The issue isn't really whether the technology exists. It does. It's really about when normal people will have access....



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    Default Re: Are 3D printed metal components going to replace milling?

    the hobbyist level starting at around $100,000.00 for a complete setup,
    Um.

    Cheers
    Roger



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    Default Re: Are 3D printed metal components going to replace milling?

    Wow...….100,000 smackeroos……….gotta have a couple of those......LOL, only kidding. one would be enough.....my investment councillor would no doubt think otherwise.

    As the technology stands today, I doubt whether anyone with hobby interests would want to indulge in a machine dedicated to produce parts specifically for an industrial situation.

    Hobby work is all about making it DIY with acquired skills etc...….the moment you start to press a green button, walk away and come back a couple of hors later for the finished part, then you have lost the plot completely...….if you're in business then that is another story.

    3D printing may be the latest flavour of the month, but for a metal part solution I think it's way up in the stars like Star Trek.

    If you really, really must have a single part that is not or cannot be totally machined from a solid block or requires little subsequent machining, it would be simpler to carve it out of some wax, either by hand or with a CNC machine,.....or even a 3D printer if you have one, and make an investment casting from it...…...that is so simple.

    Eventually, in the very fullness of time, anything you can think of will become a reality.
    Ian.



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Are 3D printed metal components  going to replace milling?

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