Are 3D printed metal components going to replace milling?

[handlewanker]

Nope....Ozito id one of the brands I have had good results with......and I can get 2 years warranty.....some were 3 years warranty.

Main point is, being much cheaper than the main brands, if/when they fail it goes straight in the bin, no spare parts to replace or source and a warranty claim is a complete replacement item every time......if it's still in stock, or a refund.

Once I started stocking everything with Lithium the game changed for the better......I just dumped all my NMH batteries as they don't last long on the shelf.

Just for the record.....try KENTLI lithium batteries on EBAY......AA and AAA size......they have a special circuit board built into each battery to make 3.7 volts good to 1.5 volts......special charger etc, but oh how long they last.....my digi camera AA KENTLI batteries were still performing after 4 months idle time.

On the 3D printer topic, I think the maintenance would be like CNC...... set up and walk away.

I would think that multiple print nozzles on each machine would have to be the way to go if you wanted any output in a reasonable time...….CNC does it that way but with a single spindle.....not quite the same way but cutting many parts from a single board ….whatever.

I wouldn't think making many parts on a single machine with a single print nozzle would be practical......as I'm not at all into 3D printing, just surmising, the technology will no doubt generate it's own criteria.
Ian.

[A_Camera]

Nimh batteries are really old technology, only a little bit better than Nicad. Lion is a totally different level. I hava a few Bosch 18V Lion battery driven gadgets and they are all very powerful and extremely well made. If I leave a battery unused over the winter it is almost fully charged when the spring comes. And if I have to charge then one hour is all that is needed. I don't know about Ozito, never heard about the brand. Ryoby and Makita also makes good machines as I have heard but never had one.

Multi extruder printers can speed up production of identical parts but also increase the costs of the printer both in terms of floor space and also in terms of staffing.

[RCaffin]

Ozito - sort of cheap rebadged Chinese stuff for Oz market. Probably slightly better than eBay Chinese.

Multi-spindle - I watched a video of a 6 or 8 spindle 4 axis CNC machine once - carving N copies of someone's head. Kinda specialised!

Cheers
Roger

[handlewanker]

Well, for the interim, I think you wouldn't be too much out of wack if you used a 3D printer to go down the lost wax casting path to get metal output.....it gets you where you want to go without the drama of difficulties with 3D metal production.

Lost wax can give you metal castings in any metal …..at this stage I think you would be a fool to push the envelope of metal production with a 3D printer being as it's still quite new and the raw materials don't cover all the bases whereas lost wax does.

Like the all electric plug in car, 3D printing will get there when the market drives it in sufficient numbers and the infrastructure supports it.
Ian..

[Goemon]

Judging by the plummeting cost of technology, and using a computer for a comparison, the 3D printer will one day be the main tool for manufacture......of that I will bet the family jewels on.

At the same time, it's a possibility that metals will be replaced by composites just to make the system work...….you don't have to use metal if an alternative material will do the same job.

I would think that the part to be made would be redesigned to cater for the 3D printer characteristics instead of beating your brains out trying to print parts in unsuitable materials.

Many years ago drills (the hand held machine tool) were made with all metal bodies.....now they are all plastic...….anything is possible if the technology supports it.

I don't think anyone would make parts for production using a single printer.....more likely there would be a multiple set-up as the need arises...…….a printer also can print more than one part at a time with multiple heads
\Ian.

Speaking as someone who makes composite parts, there is a lot they can replace but there are some things that just have to be metal. Carbon fiber and fiberglass can make parts that are strong and stiff but not hard. They don't hold screw threads well or tolorate constant friction, or anything that needs to conduct heat etc.

3d printing of metals and other materials allows the production of high aspect ratio shapes which even 5 axis milling struggles with. More importantly, it allows you to design stronger internal support structures which can make parts lighter and stronger than what you could achieve on a CNC mill in the same material.

The potential is huge if they can figure out the cost and speed issues.

[handlewanker]

On the topic of " it must be metal" ,......as long as that is firm in your mind nothing new will eventuate...….designing for a purpose is what makes innovation an important factor for design, otherwise we would still be working in wood for wheels because that is how they were always made.

I have a Black and Decker D720 2 speed drill, now defunct since the armature burnt out, but as in the old days, the body was made from a die casting in aluminium or maybe zinc die cast …...I don't really know...…..now they make them in plastic.

There is a case for metal, but as plastic is so cheap, metal is losing ground fast.

I wouldn't buy a metal bodied drill in preference over a plastic one,.......but that's just my opinion.

I would like to see a CNC mill made in plastic with a 3D printer...…..designed properly it would be awesome...…..I could imagine a hollow column heavily ribbed all the way down it's length and totally enclosed as there would be no need for a core to be removed like casting with iron.

I would imagine the weight saving would be enormous, especially in the head area and the lack of inertia on very fast traverses.

Why have a heavy cast iron table with tee slots when most of your work is done in a vice.

Design is the crucial factor for that scenario.....if you don't get it right it's mainly because it's an unknown territory, but it will happen......plastics ain't just plastics anymore.
Ian.

[Goemon]

On the topic of " it must be metal" ,......as long as that is firm in your mind nothing new will eventuate...….designing for a purpose is what makes innovation an important factor for design, otherwise we would still be working in wood for wheels because that is how they were always made.

I have a Black and Decker D720 2 speed drill, now defunct since the armature burnt out, but as in the old days, the body was made from a die casting in aluminium or maybe zinc die cast …...I don't really know...…..now they make them in plastic.

There is a case for metal, but as plastic is so cheap, metal is losing ground fast.

I wouldn't buy a metal bodied drill in preference over a plastic one,.......but that's just my opinion.

I would like to see a CNC mill made in plastic with a 3D printer...…..designed properly it would be awesome...…..I could imagine a hollow column heavily ribbed all the way down it's length and totally enclosed as there would be no need for a core to be removed like casting with iron.

I would imagine the weight saving would be enormous, especially in the head area and the lack of inertia on very fast traverses.

Why have a heavy cast iron table with tee slots when most of your work is done in a vice.

Design is the crucial factor for that scenario.....if you don't get it right it's mainly because it's an unknown territory, but it will happen......plastics ain't just plastics anymore.
Ian.

It's already being done with polymer concrete / epoxy granite machines although it doesn't offer any weight savings. Carbon fiber CNC machine like this one are a better option for that as cf has a superior strength to weight ratio than metals or plastics:

https://www.autoscale.xyz/cgr-series/

For machine parts like a CNC gantry, it's easy to replace metal with other materials but they still require metal inserts for screw threads and steel rails because nothing else is hard enough (yet).

They haven't yet invented any sort of plastic that matches the hardness and temperature resistance of metals. I have seen more promising developments with ceramic resins but as it stands today, metal can not be fully replaced. But.... everything we use is one invention away from obsolescence.

[RCaffin]

Autoscale CGR series - OK, they ARE impressive! Starting price US$90,000. Not quite hobby?
But please note: this is a ROUTER. Low cutting forces. CF is strong enough.
Now try that machine with a 1" carbide cutter going hard into steel. No chance at all! For that you need MASS in the body.


I have a Black and Decker D720 2 speed drill, now defunct since the armature burnt out,
I wonder whether that is the same as mine? Spare parts? Hum ...

Cheers
Roger

[bhurts]

That 90,000 dollar router says it comes with a 2.2kw water cooled er20 spindle. It really doesn't feel like a upgrade to a traditionally built machine. Says it can cut at 400 to 700ipm. That's not really all that impressive with so many machines already cutting faster then that and having rapids at 2500-3000ipm. It couldn't really take heavy cuts at that speed because the spindle couldn't push it. If you have a reason for a machine that big that's also lightweight maybe. It would have to be a very good reason.

Ben

Sent from my E6810 using Tapatalk

[ger21]

They appear to be marketed towards people cutting foam??
They claim "Commercial PC controller", and are running Mach4.

You can get a heck of a lot more machine for $90K than what they are selling, imo.

[RCaffin]

Well, I guess a commercial PC running the OEM version of Mach4 would be 'commercial'?

You might be able to get 'more machine for $90k', but would it look quite as glamorous as their very sexy CF frame?

Cheers
Roger

[handlewanker]

It's all a matter of scale and size for the cutting forces that are exerted.

If you took a small benchtop mill and scaled it to the proportions of that router the cutting capacity would be some orders of minimal...….you can't scale nature......it appears that the bigger they make them the less material is used in the construction...….I have to wonder what it was designed to machine in the first place.

I remember back in the 70's when I worked for an engineering firm in Bristol UK...….they had a very large floor borer that handled large fabrications.

At the same time, due to the massive overhang of the various components the cutting capacity was quite reduced compared to a milling machine 1/10 it's size due to the reaction of the cutter(s)….but it was capable of handling large fabrications and machining the various areas that needed a bored hole or a flat mounting surface etc.

BTW...…..on the 'net, there is an article about the World first's of the Chinese ……...one of those is an electric car that was totally made with a 3D printer.

As the man said...….coming to your neighbourhood soon......the 3D printer is here and it's not going away...….who would have thought that you could have a cheapish CNC mill in your garage workshop at the time when NC was on punched tape...….now we're talking about homespun printed plastics………….soon metal components will be commonplace.
Ian.

[deadlykitten]

There was a science fiction book I once read that had a special machine that encoded molecules with a code that made them align in a special pattern to form an object...…………wow, that is more than rocket science...….if you can imagine it, someone will make it.

hello handlewanker today, parts from both cncs & printers are thrown in the same trash dump

recycling volume is reduced

trash dumps are getting bigger and bigger, but still, this is not enough

plastic componentes have been infiltrated into the mother nature water chain : ocean - clouds - rain drops, etc

there is a trend to use biodegradabil materials, but it is not manifested at a big scale

---

that thing from that book : is kind of a replicator / it should "create" & "recycle" / materr phase shifter

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ericmac.../#4d791fe4520f

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replicator_(Star_Trek)

---

nature goes organic, while humans create non-organic, hard to digest waste

both of them have a tendency to consume available resources as fast as possible, only that mother nature uses recipies based on nutrients

the replicator should manage this "hard to digest" waste, thus reducing our impact over the mother nature

i guess one day, there will be too many replicators, with an impact that i can not imagine, nor understand ... and then something else may be needed ( like a replicator with soul ), and i don't know what it is, but it should not only minimize our impact over the nature, but somehow nature and humans should be one


kindly

[daniellyall]

PLA

[RCaffin]

I don't want a replicator, I want a disintegrator. Output bins for different elements.

Cheers
Roger

[handlewanker]

I can't be bothered....my waste goes down the gurgler with a flush...….. my waste from manufactured items goes either in the recycle bin or the rubbish bin...…..other waste from the plantation goes in the green bin......one day I'll be waste too and either get burned up or feed the worms.

I see that you can also DIY convert your plastic waste to filament and re-use it for 3D purposes.

The real hard part is making metal parts with a 3D printer if you have to use powdered metal...…..I would have to think that making powdered metal is a long way from the ideal when you can just wack a part out of a billet or a solid block or cast it.

I've also come to the conclusion that envisaging the future is a non starting event.

There is another way...…...using a 3D printer you print a master part in wax and coat it with graphite...…….as graphite is electrically conductive you can now plate it with metal as plating is an established method.....melt out the wax to leave you with a metal shell for whatever purpose you want.
Ian.

[Khalid]

My yesterday work on my home made Delta printer...

[daniellyall]

Have a look at what you can get in filaments Ian you can get printers for lost wax printing, you can get conductive filaments you can get them in all the common materials as a addin or made from and there are places that do the plating in the US, but as everyone else has pointed out it is slow and under 0.1 good for hobby or test parts or plane and rocket parts

[handlewanker]

My yesterday work on my home made Delta printer...

Very neat....where else could you get a one off custom made box for a project like that......time is not a problem in that case.
Ian.

[A_Camera]

Very neat....where else could you get a one off custom made box for a project like that......time is not a problem in that case.
Ian.

Milling that box is easy and takes only a few minutes but it is cheaper to print on a cheap printer than milling, even using a cheap 3040 eBay CNC. Apart from that, I think he should increase the density of the print and should do something about the oozing, as well as adjusting the Z height and the flow properly, since the first layer looks as it is smeared out.

3D printing is fun, and occasionally I also print things which are easier (better, takes less time) to mill, but no doubt that milling results in much better quality than printing the same. I guess this is forever going to be a reality, which is why 3D printers will never replace CNC mills/routers. Time is not an issue if you have no time constraints, but if you want to make many similar objects then it is definitely becoming an issue.