How did you learn the Machinist trade? - Page 3


View Poll Results: How did you learn the Machinist trade?

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  • On the job training

    189 23.63%
  • From a family member

    45 5.63%
  • Apprenticeship program

    133 16.63%
  • Vocational Tech School

    167 20.88%
  • Self taught

    251 31.38%
  • Military training

    15 1.88%
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Thread: How did you learn the Machinist trade?

  1. #41
    Banned diarmaid's Avatar
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    Im a nobody, at least re. the machinist trade, I belive nearly everyone's a somebody at something. I dont have a clue what half of the above posts meant.
    My avatar should still say chip sweeper....Respect.



  2. #42
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    Started in '83 in jr high metals class don't know anything about cnc but I'm learning. Got my own shop going about 2 years ago. It's fun and I am learning alot. Most of my experience was on my own except for the last three years of machining class at nmsu. Whats funny is my college prof. in machining was also my high school metals teacher. Yes Guess mine should read exactly what it says a chip sweeper!!!



  3. #43
    Registered slp_prlzys's Avatar
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    I was going to wait 'till I finish my course before I post here,
    but I keep seeing this everytime I come here .

    I am now learning about the trade and it's CNCzone that opened
    my eyes to it. For the longest time I thought I was graphically
    inclined I took graphics related course twice, some 4 years ago,
    but I wasn't happy with it, ( I know it's me, long story).

    I heard the word machining, but never actually look into it.
    I am also informed that I have a cousin that is supposed to be
    a machinist.

    I asked myself if I could take another course what would it be?
    Then I decided to take a machining course, I already started
    last January2006. It's been fun so far. The only thing I hate
    that I hope wont happen, It seems that Companies seems to dictate what
    would be taught in school. I heard that the school had a visitors from
    the Industry, and they seem to wants people that just know how to
    push a button(maybe it's what they need now).

    That's all for now folks!

    mhel
    "This is intentionally left blank."


  4. #44

    Cool

    Give a monkey some bananas and they can push buttons too!
    Its more important to learn the fundimentals of machining with all types of machines!
    Knowledge is power!
    Eric



  5. #45
    Member Switcher's Avatar
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    Give a monkey some bananas and they can push buttons too!
    I agree, with widgitmaster.

    Actually, the monkey runs my machine on first shift (I work 3rd).




    .



  6. #46
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    Default ^5 for the off shift

    Quote Originally Posted by Switcher
    I agree, with widgitmaster.

    Actually, the monkey runs my machine on first shift (I work 3rd).





    .
    Quote Originally Posted by drummond1
    Theres a lotta monkeys on dayshift.. theyre called process planners.


    ^5
    .



    .[/QUOTE]

    General Machinist / CNC contract Instructor


  7. #47
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    Yeah I've also been trying to get my foundry going also but its taking forever. The reason I am getting into cnc is for a plasma cutter / router table. That way while something is being cut out on the plasma cutter, I can work on the lathe or the mill, by the way any of you ever had any experience with a bridgeport tracer mill these things are crazy. jmg



  8. #48
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    Default Interesting point

    [QUOTE=Its more important to learn the fundimentals of machining with all types of machines!
    Knowledge is power!
    Eric[/QUOTE]

    I would like to see members list some of the various machines and or practices they have experience with. eg. 4-5 axis machining center, big bore lathe, plunge or wire edm, various types of grinders, keyseater, shaper, tool making, laser welding, etc. Everywhere I go I am amazed at the lack of ability to simply sharpen a drill bit with a standard bench grinder. Robots better hurry up and take over, cuz manufacturing talent is dying! -al



  9. #49
    Registered tobyaxis's Avatar
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    Arrow Machinist Trade

    The Hard Way. All self taught. Personally I think it's the wrong way to Learn a Skilled Trade, but that is just my opinion. Like many, Not Happy Unless Making Parts and Cutting Metal.

    BTW: Drills are cheap, why grind (unless you need a bottoming, aka C/C End Mills). I agree the Trade is seeing less Talent, but most don't want to do this, or they where never taught the right way.


    Toby D.
    "Imagination and Memory are but one thing, but for divers considerations have divers names"
    Schwarzwald

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)

    www.refractotech.com


  10. #50
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    it,s nice to hear my own thoughts from someone else. i was born at a perfect time . jobs were pleantiful.i built a robot that walked and talked for the science fair my senior year of high school. met werner von braun and henry ford 2nd and most important got my apprenticeship from it. i,ve been building ever since. still love it still learning BUT i have never had the opportunity to run a cnc.so i bought a kit from maxnc and am building a router. if it works i would like tl convert my mill. are any of you in michigan i am in flint. let me hear from you. Dar



  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by tobyaxis
    ...Drills are cheap, why grind....
    Years ago I used this as a test. Guy comes in claiming to be a Machinist; hand him a drill, point to the bench grinder and say sharpen it. Most times the next two words where 'good bye'. More recently I have handed them a machine manual, a hand drawn sketch with dimensions, pointed at the machine and said make four. Gets rid of the fakers real quick.



  12. #52
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    In the late 60's when I was in high school, I took Industrial Arts for 2 years. At that time it was all manual machines and jobs were plentiful for anyone who had the desire to learn the trade. In the 80's it became clear that there was a major shift in the trade with the advent of NC and then CNC machines. Learning CNC was about operating machining centers and then reading and applying the programming and operating manuals. It seemed to work! I've made big magnesium panels for Milstar Satelite System and Parts for the Hubble Space Telescope. (Just not those mirrors!)
    Les the Luthier



  13. #53
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    The name "Machinist" is so widely defined, it's no wonder we challenge those who try to claim the title. Ask me when I became a machinist and honestly I couldn't tell you. I hit the ground running, making parts my first week on the job. Then later after assuming the position of shop manager, I also used drill sharping as an aptitude test for new applicants. I do agree that "new drills are cheaper" if time is of the essence.
    I would define a machinist as someone who could walk into about any machine shop at 10:30 at night with someone needing some machine work done and sharpen whatever tool is needed to complete the task. On the other hand, I have been fortunate enough to work side by side with a few specialized manual machinist who's talents earned them top wages. So defining a machinist by the variety of equipment he or she can operate doesn't work either. One of the nice benefits of this evolution we are experiencing, including the creation of the internet as we now know it, is that we can share our knowledge around the globe with a simple click. 25 years of WOW!
    -AD



  14. #54
    Banned diarmaid's Avatar
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    Ok, so Im going to bite the bullet and show my complete lack of knowledge in order to ask a question Im hoping others wanted to ask aswell.......

    .....How exactly DO you sharpen a drill bit on a bench grinder?

    Thanks.....



  15. #55
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    It is an acquired skill called "offhand" grinding and is as difficult to explain as it is to master. It is best learned by seeing it done, otherwise, head for the Cuttermaster.

    Bud



  16. #56
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    Thumbs up

    It's not that hard but if you want it to be right you should use a drill point gage, available through travers or ebay should have them.



  17. #57
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    Default Hand Sharpening a drill bit

    A standard drill grind is 118 degrees with a lip clearance of 3 to 5 degrees. Using a drill gage helps. Once you have the angle close, you try to make each side of the grind equal. When you think you've got it, drill a hole in some scrap material and use a gage pin to determine the diameter. If it is too large look at the lips to see which one is cutting more. Grind off a little of that lip and retry your test hole. Most of the art of hand grinding drills is in your steadiness in holding the drill as you grind it. The thing to remember is that you want to verify that the drill cuts the correct size before you make the hole in your workpiece and discover you've scrapped the part!

    Some of the problems with hand grinding bits are: The web of the drill is too thick and you must hand grind some center relief (Similar to a split point). The edge has turned brown from too much heat and has lost its temper (use a small can filled with water to quench the drill before it overheats). If a drill has broken or the edge is badly chipped there may be fracture lines extending back behind the tip. It may be necessary to shorten the drill to remove any fractures before you sharpen the drill.

    These days most shops have drill grinding machines. They work very well if you undestand the process. Most of those machines use a 135 degree grind and have some provision for a split point. Most of us have better luck with the grinding machine than with hand sharpening.



  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by diarmaid
    Ok, so Im going to bite the bullet and show my complete lack of knowledge in order to ask a question Im hoping others wanted to ask aswell.......

    .....How exactly DO you sharpen a drill bit on a bench grinder?

    Thanks.....
    Step one; turn the bench grinder on. That is the really easy part.
    Look closely at the drill and note the cutting edge is a straight line.
    Hold the drill so that the edge you intend to sharpen is facing up and parallel with the shaft of the grinder and very close to the wheel; NOT touching yet!!!!
    Imagine a radial line drawn from the center of the shaft to the cutting edge of the drill and project this line out for about the length of the drill.
    Because the cutting edge of the drill is parallel to the shaft of the grinder the drill and imaginary line will form an angle that depends on the point angle of the drill.
    Now imagine you are looking from the side; the centerline of the drill itself should be below the radial line by around 3 to 5 degrees. This is what starts your initial clearance angle on the cutting edge. 'Looking' from the side is necessary so you 'see' the projection of the radial line onto the drill centerline.

    So far things have been easy; now you go into imagination overload but first a little explanation.

    If you simply brought the drill into contact with the wheel in the position it is currently held the cutting edge would be ground okay but further around there would be insufficient clearance; the 'heel' of the drill would rub. You need to be able to grind heel clearance.

    Now imagine a line that runs parallel to the cutting edge of the drill but which is located about 1/4 to 1/2 the drill diameter back from the edge and about 1/8 to 1/4 the drill diameter below the level of the cutting edge. You are going to rotate the drill around this line with the cutting edge moving upwards.

    Naturally if you just did the simple rotation the cutting edge would rotate up and away from the grinding wheel so it is necessary to move the axis of rotation down and closer to the wheel simultaneously with rotating the drill around the axis. This is the hard part; it is difficult to describe other than to say the cutting edge of the drill performs a sort of 'scooping' motion. The radius of the the scoop and the depth of the scoop determine the heel clearance on the drill but if you scoop too far you hit the opposite cutting edge against the wheel and destroy its cutting edge.

    And once you have perfected this for one cutting edge you do the other exactly the same.

    Last edited by Geof; 07-13-2006 at 09:20 PM. Reason: typo


  19. #59
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    Hand grinding a drill shouldn't be made harder than it needs to be. If you need a visual cue to see the angle, try this. On the tool rest of your grinder (With the grinder turned off!) draw a chalk or china marker line perpendicular to the face of the wheel. Next, draw a second line either 31 degrees to the left or right of the straight on line. The direction depends on whether you're right or left handed. With that visual cue you should be able to make the point angle close to 118 degrees. As for the 3 to 5 degree lip clearance it isn't difficult if you do this. I'm a right hander, so the 31 degree line would slope away from the grinding wheel face to my left. I would hold close to the point of the drill with enough protruding to allow the drill and not the fingers to contact the wheel. The back of the drill is held in my left hand and the shaft of the drill is lowered with the right hand remaining motionless. This creates the lip clearance. It is a matter of comparason to a properly ground drill to get the lip clearance right. My comments in post #57 apply to this process. It is simply a matter of observing and testing to get a hand ground drill to cut proper size.

    Last edited by Les the Luthier; 07-13-2006 at 10:34 PM. Reason: typo


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    The cliche' "actions speak louder then words" has its place, but not here on an online forum. Like many others, I come here to learn and asking questions displays intellegence, not ignorance. I believe Les and Geof illustrated offhand drill sharping very well, the rest of the ingredients is practice, and lots of it. Years ago I asked an old master mill hand how he became so smart. He replied, "I'm not smarter then anyone else, I simply made more mistakes"! A few shops I've worked in had the convenience of a toolroom w/toolmaker on staff, but the majority were small job shops where tool grinding was part of getting the job done. As Les had mentioned, if one cutting edge of a drill is longer then the other, you will drill a hole larger then the drill diameter. In tight situations when a metric drill is needed but not available, it is common to purposely sharpen a drill this way. Another purpose for grinding tools is to adjust for the different types of materials used.
    Aptitude plays an important part in determining ones ability. Not everyone can visualize the finished product, and those who can do not naturally understand the struggle of the others. Discovering what you are naturally good at can turn work into play and could mean you never have to work another day of your life! -AD



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How did you learn the Machinist trade?

How did you learn the Machinist trade?