Robotool CVM-1 knee mill


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    Default Robotool CVM-1 knee mill

    Looking at one for sale here but it keeps getting a "emergency stop or limit switch encounter" and you have to reset it.
    When you hit jog all is still good till you try to move XYZ.

    I have checked all the limit switches and even tried unplugging the cables from the board. I do not here any noise when I hit the E Stop button. Shouldn't there be some noise?

    This machine is pristine and was used to make wooden parts. All the flaking is still on the ways and the bed shines like a mirror. It was making parts, unplugged and moved across town. Cleaned off the wood dust and now this.

    Any ideas?

    Looks like these were made in Louisville, Co where I live by Colorado Numerical Control Corp.

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    Member holbieone's Avatar
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    does it have a dead man switch ?



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    NOt sure what you mean. It has a main power switch and the emergency stop button that you push to stop and turn to reset, a small stop button on the panel. THe reset button is on the floppy drive.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Robotool CVM-1 knee mill-control-jpg  


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    i don't remember what brand machine , but years ago i ran a small mill where you had a small hand held pendent with one button on it that you had to keep pressed to move an axis

    if you let go or didn't press the button ,it gave a similar error


    also check to see if you have power going to the drives



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    I'm still reading the manuals but have yet to see anything mentioned like that.

    No power is sent to the drives as it won't get past this screen first.
    My friend has a Bridgeport that is similar and he says that even if the lube system is not working you will get a similar error. There is a line not hooked up down there.
    The main thing is that on his BP the E Stop triggers all kinds of switch sounds which this one is doing nothing.



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    I would look for a lube alarm - but more likely is an air pressure sensor switch not seeing the minimum pressure to activate the spindle break as required for E-Stop.



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    THX for the suggestion. I did read that there is an air brake but didn't see anything in regards to a air hook up.
    I don't have the Service manual though, all I have is the program and operation manuals.
    I can't autohome either. On the cover of one of the manuals it says to type 96 to bypass autohome procedures which I do and it then allows me to continue. Not sure how you would find out how to do that without some support or maybe the service manual.

    Does anyone have a service manual or for that matter one of these machines at all?

    I did find out that the engineer for Robotool in Louisville, CO. that was giving support for these died in a plane crash last year. So sad.

    If there was ever a machine that was a excellent candidate for a retro this is one. I can't afford to do that though at this time. I did see a post somewhere where a guy completely rewired one for about $2000 instead of the $4 to $5K that was quoted here local to have it done. He did the work himself. The guy is asking $1000 for this machine. I am going to either sell my J-Head BP or my benchtop knee mill to pay for this. I would rather not sell the BP if I can help it but I just may if this runs as is. Of course the fly's are lining up at the door to get the BP for $1000. The benchtop is more in line at $1000



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    For the price of a Mesa 7i43 or so you could likely get the machine running using (EMC2) LinuxCNC nearly as is.

    However, upgrading the encoders would be the first step - then maybe the amps then you would have a nice little screamer.

    I pulled out my CVM-1 manual - and found the manual I have is just the "Programming Manual". I actually went to the Louisville, CO facility to look at the CVM-1 sometime 89-94 but they only had 2 left and had started fitting a newer 286 and 386 based controls vrs the Z-80A that the CVM-1 used.

    The Z80A control had low count encoders so it could keep up - the later controls used higher count encoders but I don't think many of these newer machines were sold before the company closed.



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    I sold my 6x26 benchtop knee mill yesterday for $1000. That was quick. I am just going to pull the trigger and get this Robotool now and have it delivered this weekend so I will have lots more time to figure it out. I'm sure it is something simple as it was working before the move. Just need to find someone who has or has had one to pick their brain. I wish I had that service manual.



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    Got the mill in and wired today. It fired right up and went through the auto home *sequence. I shut it off and then I get the stop switch error again. Spent a few hours testing things. I bet this is just some loose connection probably in the stop button itself. Non the less this will be a great candidate for upgrade down the road.
    Basically traded my 1984 benchtop knee mill for this delivered.
    Here are some pictures.








    Looks like it still has cosmoline on it. Flakes untouched through out travel on the whole machine.








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    Thumbs up

    Looks like you made out like a Bandit (psydo pun intended)

    Actually if you can run with the Robo-tool control it is more advanced than a Bandit. Great score!



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    THX for the encouragement Skull. Time will tell if I find anything.

    I looked for air input and there isn't anything. So still confused on the air brake reference in the manual.
    The lube system is not hooked up to any electrical. There is no cable at all going to it. I have no idea what pin number on what board is used to operate it either. One line isn't hooked up to the vertical way lube fitting. It won't reach. Not sure how this was routed. If this wasn't hooked up on the Bridgeport it wouldn't run at all.

    as well as the coolant pin number. I sure wish I could find a service manual.


    Being it did start going through the Auto process twice I don't think it was needed to run but needs to be hooked up.
    I'm kind of confused being the manual says that it does have an air brake. There is a pin on the left side that I don't know what it does either. It is missing something as far as a lever goes. It may have something to do with a brake.








    The lever on the right side feels like a back gear or spindle lock. I can't turn the spindle by hand with the lever pointing to the rear.




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    I feel like a bandit. I haven't turned the benchtop on in 15 years except for a couple of times for some quick thing. Apparently they are worth the $1000 as this one was not used much but abused lots before I got it. I bought it from the original owner in 95. Hardly a comparison.
    I am having an electronic engineer come over in a few minutes. I'm stumped being it did run and now it doesn't. I thought I have checked very connection there is several times.



    Last edited by geckocycles; 12-03-2012 at 06:07 PM.


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    Cool

    OK - looks like the brake air cylinder assy has been removed and the oiling has been jury rigged.

    I'm betting that oil line that is hanging loose went to the quill and Z ballscrew & nut. On the oil pump I think the power went into that silver item on the top of the box - looks like they were just using the manual "primer" pump to lube the machine.

    I have a Hurco KM3P (cnc knee mill) - I'll shoot some pics of the spindle brake air cylinder and its mounts so you can see what would be there - and find the mounting hole locations so you can fab up what you need. May be over the weekend before I can take any pics.

    If you can get into MDI mode - with someone else at the control panel - enter an M8 and start while you have your head in the control cabinet. M9 to shut it off. but you should be able to locate the coolant pump relay - and trace from there. I bet this machine uses "icecube" relays and you should hear them engage with ease.

    Not sure but you could also try M5 - see if it triggers a relay for the spindle break air solenoid.

    The lube pump might be powered via a relay that goes active when servo power is on, and the duty cycle maybe mechanically set inside the pump, Or the servo power relay may feed some other timing device.

    The spindle brake is needed to lock the spindle when in high gear range so you can do a tool change. - you were correct that the lever on the right side is the high/low selector and with the lever locked to the rear the machine is in back gear (low). There should be a position just short of the full forward position which is a neutral spot. The actual latching positions can be adjusted for best operation.



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    I may have found a couple of people who have these machines and are hopefully going to send me a picture of what is missing as far as the brake nd oilier.

    Being it did run a few times through the auto home sequence we thought that no other components feedback was needed to run. The engineer thought it could be circuitry issues. He is not a machine tool guy but just a guy that is familiar with electronics and it could take a week to possibly find a issue without diagrams.
    I am still trying to find a local guy who is familiar with this. I don't want to spend allot on getting this running with the included controls. I am putting together a parts list for an upgrade keeping the servos for now and if I can't get the brake figured out then will go VFD. There is a guy who did one already on machsupport.com and has been very helpful so far. He has $2000 in it with VFD.

    I will try your MDI suggestions.



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    I couldn't find anyone to help with this so I decided to just retro the whole control.
    If anyone needs anything from this old system let me know. I was not able to make a copy of the disk. When I lock the disk and insert it, I get a sector error and the copy prompts don't appear as it should. The disk will continue to run the machine either locked or unprotected mode.
    I have 2 manuals, operating and programming. Couldn't find a service manual. I met one guy who bought a Robtool new from the MFG here in Louisville. They would not even give him the service manual as it was top secrete even to those who bought a machine new. WOW He still has his machine but needs a servo amp which I could give him if he contacts me again. He had the original computer replaced and built a 386 and had a program written for it that works.

    Anyway, I bought the electronics and VFD and am getting ready to build the control. I hope to use what I can of the old system to get it running and upgrade as needed. I have another enclosure I am probably going to use so I could let that go too if needed. I hope to start putting the new control together this week. The high voltage side I would like to keep if I could. If someone wants the whole control we can talk as I would need enough $ to replace what I was going to use for the new control.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Robotool CVM-1 knee mill-panel-jpg  


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    Default Re: Robotool CVM-1 knee mill

    Hey geckocycles,
    Do you still need some help with your Robotool mill. I am new here and I have one of those machines in working order that I use all of the time. I have the manuals that came with it also. My master disc has a bad sector on it so I can not make any extra operating disc's but still use the one operating disc that came with it. It has all the stuff like the automatic oiler, air braking, stop switch etc. that you were confused about.
    Let me know if you need a picture or two of something to help out.
    metalsmith32



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    Are you running the mill ?
    I just got one and it is running
    But I can't get the rs232 recive working ?
    do you know how ?



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    Default Re: Robotool CVM-1 knee mill

    Did a retro on a Mighty Comet, same thing..... Used MachMotion equipment, works great.
    Have all the drives and boards off the machine, would part with them....., actually everything but the enclosure and the spindle motor.



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    Default Re: Robotool CVM-1 knee mill

    Covid gave me time to get back to plugging it in. Put it together in 2013 LOL. Having issues still but at least it is moving and accurately.
    No spindle control yet and Mach4 issues with ESS config software. Can get the BOB pin lights to light up M3 Sxxxxx but no signal leaving BOB to relays for spindle. I think I will just wire the VFD separate and move on.
    Was going to go Centroid but that would mean building another computer. Centroid needs more CNCPC. I built a computer for Mach3 in 2012 and then got a win10 for Mach4 now another one? This last one I bought was cheap and just 1/2 again more power than needed for mach4 but not enough for Centroid.
    Robotool CVM-1 knee mill-20200130_145755-jpg

    I am not impressed with Mach4 support. They told me to use beta versions and the MFG said not to but the official release won't work with the ess config software. Now the beta that Mach told me to use is now not on their ftp site. I guess it didn't work out. Another reason to call this a $500 wash and get Acorn and start over but I need another computer too. My son is sending me one of his old laptops with Win10 on it. I'll see if it will run Centroid before making the switch. Got oiler fittings and spindle brake springs in the mail and gives me time to pull 3ph wire to the mill separately.



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