Need Help! I was told cutting PVC was nontoxic.

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    *Registered User* Jst187's Avatar
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    Default I was told cutting PVC was nontoxic.

    Hello

    My name is Jacob. I have been cutting this material for the past few months and have since found the material in question emits high levels of chlorine gas. I have the MSDS from the manufacturer and it states the compound is PVC: 20%-80%. how do i find out the exact percentage of the compound? should i be worried about bringing the residue home on my clothing? please post with anything that can help me understand the severity of cutting this material with a CO2 Laser. (hankwang FL3015)

    thank you

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    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: I was told cutting PVC was nontoxic.

    For your reading enjoyment

    https://www.carlislesyntec.com/downl...34&fileID=6830


    https://www.creativemechanisms.com/b...ut-pvc-plastic


    Google Search: is pvc toxic when heated

    Based on the quick reading I just did, I would want really good ventilation in the area of cutting (inside the laser cabinet) that is exhausted outside of the building, preferably through an external filter system. Once the plastic has cooled it should be perfectly safe to handle, only the smoke is harmful.

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


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    *Registered User* Jst187's Avatar
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    Default Re: I was told cutting PVC was nontoxic.

    The extra exhaust system in place is homemade and I'm sure it is not up to regulations. The gas is pumped outside the building and blown back in the bay door for us to enjoy. I was told it was nontoxic while there and not until after I looked up the manufacturer and downloaded the msds was I able to look at what this is. We have a blue tarp over the top to hold in the gas and pulled out by the exhaust. The machine is NOT air tight.

    When I asked about a mask they said we have paper marked just go ask for one. I went and bought the proper mask and filters myself. Then a few days later I was threatened through text because of a call made to an organization, that I DID NOT call, and the investigation is still open.

    I can not go to work, I have not quit and I have not been fired. Like I said any and all help with this situation will be greatly appreciated.

    Last edited by Jst187; 09-17-2018 at 12:11 AM.


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    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: I was told cutting PVC was nontoxic.

    The machine should not be airtight, but rather should have slightly negative pressure in the cutting area. The tarp might be OK. A good airflow is required to evacuate the smoke. The vapors coming back in the door is a bad thing.

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


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    *Registered User* Jst187's Avatar
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    Default Re: I was told cutting PVC was nontoxic.

    The vapors leak out of the machine. Puffs of smoke hit me while I'm unloading the table.



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    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: I was told cutting PVC was nontoxic.

    That means the ventilation system is not working. What country are you in?

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


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    *Registered User* Jst187's Avatar
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    Default Re: I was told cutting PVC was nontoxic.

    United states



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    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: I was told cutting PVC was nontoxic.

    CNCZone has members from all over the world, that's why I asked. OK, you have OSHA available. I suspect they would flip out over what you have said here tonight. Your state environmental protection department (whatever you call it in your state) might be interested also. Sounds like there is no filtration system on the exhaust.

    I guess I would go find another job.

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


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    *Registered User* Jst187's Avatar
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    Default Re: I was told cutting PVC was nontoxic.

    The proper organizations have been notified and no there is not a filtration system in place that I am aware of. I've herd stories about how there used to not be exhaust system and the smoke poured in the shop.



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    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: I was told cutting PVC was nontoxic.

    I don't think I can add anything. Best of luck to you.

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


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    *Registered User* Jst187's Avatar
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    Default Re: I was told cutting PVC was nontoxic.

    Haha thanks. But anyone with information on what my next move should be is more than helpful. I've never been in a situation like this and just want to be prepared for what's to come. Any legal advice would be much appreciated as well.

    Last edited by Jst187; 09-17-2018 at 09:35 AM.


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    Member mactec54's Avatar
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    Default Re: I was told cutting PVC was nontoxic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jst187 View Post
    The extra exhaust system in place is homemade and I'm sure it is not up to regulations. The gas is pumped outside the building and blown back in the bay door for us to enjoy. I was told it was nontoxic while there and not until after I looked up the manufacturer and downloaded the msds was I able to look at what this is. We have a blue tarp over the top to hold in the gas and pulled out by the exhaust. The machine is NOT air tight.

    When I asked about a mask they said we have paper marked just go ask for one. I went and bought the proper mask and filters myself. Then a few days later I was threatened through text because of a call made to an organization, that I DID NOT call, and the investigation is still open.

    I can not go to work, I have not quit and I have not been fired. Like I said any and all help with this situation will be greatly appreciated.
    Unless you where burning it ( like on fire ) you have nothing to worry about, sounds like you started something that should not of been an issue, if you had been ingesting any chlorine gas in any way you would not of been standing

    There is always a smell when cutting PVC but that is not chlorine gas

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: I was told cutting PVC was nontoxic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dawson View Post
    CNCZone has members from all over the world, that's why I asked. OK, you have OSHA available. I suspect they would flip out over what you have said here tonight. Your state environmental protection department (whatever you call it in your state) might be interested also. Sounds like there is no filtration system on the exhaust.

    I guess I would go find another job.
    And there does not have to be, as there would of been nothing that was toxic

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: I was told cutting PVC was nontoxic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jst187 View Post
    Haha thanks. But anyone with information on what my next move should be is more than helpful. I've never been in a situation like this and just want to be prepared for what's to come. Any legal advice would be much appreciated as well.
    Get a new job because you won't have this one anymore, they where not doing anything illegal, they may come after you for lose of production though, they have the right to do that

    Mactec54


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    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: I was told cutting PVC was nontoxic.

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Unless you where burning it ( like on fire ) you have nothing to worry about, sounds like you started something that should not of been an issue, if you had been ingesting any chlorine gas in any way you would not of been standing

    There is always a smell when cutting PVC but that is not chlorine gas

    One of the byproducts of the incomplete combustion of PVC is Dioxin, machining the stuff is fine, but laser cutting without proper ventilation would worry me, and I don't get too worried about shop fumes. Read the EPA papers on it. No, I don't think it would release enough chlorides to be dangerous except in high concentrations.

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


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    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: I was told cutting PVC was nontoxic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jst187 View Post
    Haha thanks. But anyone with information on what my next move should be is more than helpful. I've never been in a situation like this and just want to be prepared for what's to come. Any legal advice would be much appreciated as well.
    Your next move is to find another job. On the other hand, the reason that you are on leave right now is because they think you called OSHA. They can't outright fire you, that would be a retaliatory termination and would put you in a position to have a good case against them. But there is no point in continuing to work there, even if they were forced to put you back to work it would not be an environment (physically or emotionally) that I would want to work in.

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


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    *Registered User* Jst187's Avatar
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    Default Re: I was told cutting PVC was nontoxic.

    first off, yes we are burning the material because its a 4kw laser we are cutting the material with. i call it my light saber. second, i have the msds straight from the manufacturer which shows it to be toxic IF "cut with laser". i have much more but i do not want to show all my cards.



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    Default Re: I was told cutting PVC was nontoxic.

    also the chlorine gas is actually HCl = Hydrogen Chloride which once it contacts water it turns to Hydrochloric acid. and you are correct every time i got a good dose of fumes i was not standing there for long.



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    Member mactec54's Avatar
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    Default Re: I was told cutting PVC was nontoxic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jst187 View Post
    also the chlorine gas is actually HCl = Hydrogen Chloride which once it contacts water it turns to Hydrochloric acid. and you are correct every time i got a good dose of fumes i was not standing there for long.
    Your laser is melting the PVC Plastic, PVC is melted everyday in manufacturing Injection molding and extrusion it is heated to it's melting point, they have no ventilation requirement's to do this, Lasers always have a built in ventilation system which is normally more than enough for what you where doing

    You did not get it at all if you got a dose of chlorine gas, you would of been on a ventilator fighting for survival, you said you ran it for a few months, then there was no chlorine gas present when you where using this machine

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: I was told cutting PVC was nontoxic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dawson View Post
    One of the byproducts of the incomplete combustion of PVC is Dioxin, machining the stuff is fine, but laser cutting without proper ventilation would worry me, and I don't get too worried about shop fumes. Read the EPA papers on it. No, I don't think it would release enough chlorides to be dangerous except in high concentrations.
    Reading is not the answer, they are just a set of guide lines, unless you have hands on experience in manufacturing of PVC then you are no better than the worker that thought he was being gassed and is still alive to talk about it

    Mactec54


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I was told cutting PVC was nontoxic.

I was told cutting PVC was nontoxic.