I was told cutting PVC was nontoxic.

[Jim Dawson]

Reading is not the answer, they are just a set of guide lines, unless you have hands on experience in manufacturing of PVC then you are no better than the worker that thought he was being gassed and is still alive to talk about it

There is a difference between immediate acute exposure to the vaporized material and the longer term effects of exposure to lower concentrations. And we are not talking about melting here, the material is being vaporized in the laser kerf. Melted PVC should pose minimal risk in the case of injection molding or vacuum forming, and similar operations.

I do agree that the OSHA and EPA guidelines can be a bit conservative, according to OSHA and the EPA I should be dead due to acute ozone exposure, but here I am typing this.

[mactec54]

There is a difference between immediate acute exposure to the vaporized material and the longer term effects of exposure to lower concentrations. And we are not talking about melting here, the material is being vaporized in the laser kerf. Melted PVC should pose minimal risk in the case of injection molding or vacuum forming, and similar operations.

I do agree that the OSHA and EPA guidelines can be a bit conservative, according to OSHA and the EPA I should be dead due to acute ozone exposure, but here I am typing this.

All methods of manufacturing using PVC resin pose the same risks as cutting sheet with a Laser

Ozone is not going to hurt you like chlorine gas will there are no comparisons, Ozone has a half life and is a everyday gas that everyone breathes, It's not good for your health in large doses though

The main problem of cutting PVC with a Laser is the machine will suffer and have terrible corrosion problems, everything will rust or be eaten away by the gases coming off from the cutting, it can safely be cut with a Laser but your machine will suffer, is it worth doing a job like this most likely not, as maintenance cost will use up any profit and more

If his machine was experiencing instant corrosion problems then management of this company is crazy for doing the job, because it will destroy the machine in a very short time, will this affect the operator not normally, unless the operator had his head in the machine cutting area when it was cutting ( which would be not likely ) then he may get some corrosion of his lungs also

If his parts he was cutting showed any sign of black areas where the cut was being done that would not be good, as this is the stage of when the Chlorine gas is released, so Black as in Burnt on the edges where it is Black will be flaky, so if the parts have no Black Burnt edges then he has no harmful Chlorine gas coming off the Laser cut parts

Most companies will not laser cut PVC because of the corrosion it will cause to the laser and there machine

[awerby]

He is burning it - any time you cut something with a laser in air, "decomposition products" (fumes) are produced. In this case, they are quite toxic. Here's a MSDS for PVC: http://www.nationalpipe.com/pdf_files/msds-pvc.pdf

Stop cutting this stuff with a laser until you've got the ventilation issues worked out and approved by an industrial hygienist. If the terminology is hard for you to understand, you can ask a medical professional to decipher it for you, but since the lungs are lined with squamous cells, that "desquamation" is not a good thing. If you follow the news, chlorine gas is one of the chemicals the Syrian regime was recently accused of using on its enemies; it was considered serious enough to merit a US air strike. Don't let that happen to you...

[Jst187]

Thanks for the link I'll save that. What's crazy is the msds I have doesn't even have the correct CAS# on it and I was still able to look it up. We also used a similar gas in ww1 check it out.

[Jst187]

Less than 8 hours on that filter.

By the way, mectec, why didnt you accept my friend request? No need to be rude.

[Jst187]

Those exhausts are definitely up to standards. Take a look at the ceiling. We've never cut wood on that machine either...

[Jim Dawson]

Those exhausts are definitely up to standards. Take a look at the ceiling. We've never cut wood on that machine either...

I think you meant the exhaust is NOT up to standards. I would say that machine needs a heavy duty downdraft suction system. I've only seen a couple of lasers cutting plastic and have never seen anything like that.

[Jst187]

Thanks Jim, I've been cutting that material for roughly 4 months while under the impression it was non-toxic.

[mactec54]

Those exhausts are definitely up to standards. Take a look at the ceiling. We've never cut wood on that machine either...

As for the friends request I never had a notification so not Shure how that is rude, sometime things take time to show up I think the only one being rude is you for posting about it I did accept but after seeing your post I will delete it

It's a little hard to say by the smoke in your photo, but what I can see, it is not toxic Chlorine Gas which is a yellowish green gas so what ever the smoke is it is not Chlorine Gas, and most likely has no toxicity at all, any type of smoke that you can see like this will have some affect on you, it is obvious that the extraction is not working very well or even if it is working at all, is it turned on, you are the operator, can you hear the extraction fans running they make a lot of noise check the video I posted you can hear the fans sucking the fumes out and away from the cut area

[Jst187]

Oh yes sir both exhaust systems were on and that was how much was still in the shop. I hope you can see my concerns for the rest of my friends there breathing this all day. Many of whom are probably still under the impression its non-toxic. If you take a look at the photo of the filter I posted you will see the yellow color you speak of. I'm sorry we can not be friends and I did not mean to be rude. I hope you understand my concerns.

[Jst187]

Another concern I have is how it was openly talked about how "back in the day" there was no second exhaust, there was no top on the machine at all and pumped that gas into the shop. Those people there for that I'm truly worried for.

[mactec54]

Another concern I have is how it was openly talked about how "back in the day" there was no second exhaust, there was no top on the machine at all and pumped that gas into the shop. Those people there for that I'm truly worried for.

You would ingest more chlorine in the water you drink cook and bathe in, swimming pools plus from many other house hold cleaners Etc, than what you are likely to get from what is happening with that laser cutting the PVC sheet, what I could see in the photo there is nothing that is toxic, it may smell bad but is not a problem for your friends

Chlorine Gas does not float up in the air like you can see in your photo, Chlorine is heavier than Air so sinks down to low areas Like floor ground level

Everyone in the shop would either be dead or very sick if there was any Chlorine in the air

The add Chlorine in PVC is a flame retardant to prevent it from burning

How is Chlorine made

Salt (sodium chloride) obtained from dried-up sea beads is dissolved in water to form a solution of brine. This solution is placed in a cell and a current of electricity is passed through it. Chlorine gas bubbles off in one part of the cell and sodium metal is produced in the other. The sodium reacts with water to form caustic soda (sodium hydroxide) ( Drain Cleaner one of the uses) and hydrogen gas. Both of which have important commercial uses.

[Jst187]

I'm bord with this guy... go over to one of the pallets of rubber and look up the distributor for yourself, You work there so you should already know all this.

[Jst187]

On the bright side, I would like to say thank you to all branches of the armed forces. I never had to make the sacrifices you have but I have seen what those sacrifices can take from a person. I am truly grateful for all of you. Much love.

#Civilian. <--- first hashtag ever

[awerby]

You would ingest more chlorine in the water you drink cook and bathe in, swimming pools plus from many other house hold cleaners Etc, than what you are likely to get from what is happening with that laser cutting the PVC sheet, what I could see in the photo there is nothing that is toxic, it may smell bad but is not a problem for your friends

[I envy your ability to identify toxic gases from photographs.]

Chlorine Gas does not float up in the air like you can see in your photo, Chlorine is heavier than Air so sinks down to low areas Like floor ground level

[Even things that are heavier than air can form clouds that can poison you before they settle out.]

Everyone in the shop would either be dead or very sick if there was any Chlorine in the air

[You've never heard of sub-acute poisoning? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29775917]

The add Chlorine in PVC is a flame retardant to prevent it from burning

[But when you burn it anyway, bad things can happen.]

How is Chlorine made

Salt (sodium chloride) obtained from dried-up sea beads is dissolved in water to form a solution of brine. This solution is placed in a cell and a current of electricity is passed through it. Chlorine gas bubbles off in one part of the cell and sodium metal is produced in the other. The sodium reacts with water to form caustic soda (sodium hydroxide) ( Drain Cleaner one of the uses) and hydrogen gas. Both of which have important commercial uses.

[So the fact that they have "important commercial uses" means they're safe to ingest? It may be that the amount of toxic materials being produced here are at levels that won't kill our Original Poster, at least right away. But if I were him, I'd want to err on the side of caution. Some people in my town got enthusiastic about experimental laser cutting in their apartment. They sounded like interesting folks; I wish I'd got the chance to dissuade them from experimenting with plastics that aren't recommended for laser cutting: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/0..._laser_cutter/ ]

[mactec54]

I'm bord with this guy... go over to one of the pallets of rubber and look up the distributor for yourself, You work there so you should already know all this.

And you are showing us your arrogance

I'm just pointing out how paranoid and uneducated you are I used to manage a plant that manufactured PVC from the formulation of the resin to the end product, 400 people worked there, did the workers require masks, yes only in the batch mixing part of the process and that was only 4 to 6 people that work in the mixing process they would mix up to 20 tons a day the masks where worn only because of the dust mostly Chalk one of the fillers in the manufacture of PVC

I don't work for anyone, not sure what you mean ( go look at one of the pallets of rubber you work there ) so I guess just more of your paranoia

So now you are saying that you are where cutting Rubber sheet and not PVC sheet make up you mind what were you cutting Rubber sheet or PVC sheet ???

[mactec54]

[So the fact that they have "important commercial uses" means they're safe to ingest? It may be that the amount of toxic materials being produced here are at levels that won't kill our Original Poster, at least right away. But if I were him, I'd want to err on the side of caution. Some people in my town got enthusiastic about experimental laser cutting in their apartment. They sounded like interesting folks; I wish I'd got the chance to dissuade them from experimenting with plastics that aren't recommended for laser cutting: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/0..._laser_cutter/ ]

Nobody said anything is good or safe to ingest, not from any types of Plastic being burnt, it seems now that he may not of been cutting PVC sheet and by the color of the smoke in the photo that tells the same story PVC does not make that color smoke when burnt

[Jst187]

Confidence and arrogance are two separate things... I have labels and documents, not just pics and screenshots. I err to the side of fact. Hydrogen Chloride... if you think I'm talking about pvc like in that video then you are mistaken. Again, and again, and again... I hope the guys in the shop are watching me school you.. sleep well.

[Jst187]

Thank you awerby. Please continue. Your in the medical field aren't you?

[Jst187]

From distributor... I have shipping label too...