Cutting/Drilling Dibond (Aluminum Composite Material)

[tommick]

I'm cutting 3 mm Dibond with an Amana 51508 3/16" cutter and it cuts great and I'm getting great results. However, I used the same cutter to make some 1/4" holes and things got weird. I have vinyl graphics over the Dibond and a layer of 3M matte overlay over that. When the holes are cut, a little circular piece of aluminum (the top layer of aluminum on the Dibond) comes off and is forced under the vinyl. It tears up the vinyl when doing this.

Does anyone have any suggestions for stopping this? I have no problems when routing but only when making the holes.

Thanks for any advice or ideas, TM.

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[CarveOne]

Try using the pocket tool path, and set it to ramp into the material if your software has this feature. I only know that VCP and Aspire can do this. It should eliminate the disk.

CarveOne

[LeeWay]

You could try using a drill bit or a down cut bit for the holes.

[tommick]

Thanks for the feedback. I use VCP and I have a smooth ramp but maybe I will try a spiral ramp and see how that works. I may have to use a drill bit but I'm trying to avoid a tool change if I can. I really appreciate you both taking the time to give me some ideas.

[RossMosh]

Pocketing will definitely resolve the issue. Likely switching to a upcut bit will as well. I can see why you want a downcut. It's going to give you the best edge quality considering you're putting your good face up. My gut says that an upcut bit of that type will still leave you a good top edge. I'd call Amana to confirm before spending $30+ on a new bit.

[tommick]

Next Monday the sign shop is giving me scrap dibond and vinyl and matte overlay and I will be able to try some different things. The Amana dibond bit has kind of a tooth hanging down and the bit is 3/16" and the hole I'm pocketing is actually .265" so the little circle of aluminum gets created by the shape of the cutting bit. It's probably my stubbornness that's part of the problem and I may end up using a drill bit for the holes. But I'm not giving up yet because I hopefully will have to make lots of these parts and I don't have a tool changer (except for me). Unfortunately the vinyl print is itself really expensive and I can't ruin that in the process.

I'll know more next week.

Thanks, TM

[LeeWay]

Can you set the machine up to do primary and secondary ops?
Do all your profiles first. Then have a jig the profiles fit into and drill all the holes.

[tommick]

LeeWay, that might end up being the solution. Since the Dibond is only 3mm (1/8") I'm sure I could stack a bunch and do all the holes at the same time. This is really great to have all of you helping me think of solutions - thanks. I have another Dibond product coming up in a couple of months so any process development I do now will pay off in the long run. I wish the vinyl graphic could be placed on the Dibond after I cut the Dibond but unfortunately I have to make holes for push buttons and LEDs and acrylic "windows" for this museum product and everything has to be perfectly aligned with the graphic. I initially did all this with a Sintra backing and it all turned out beautifully so I just have to solve this one problem. I've also ordered a 1/8" dia. bit to see if that will pocket out the hole from the middle using a spiral ramp. I'm starting to appreciate working with wood! TM

[LeeWay]

What type of router setup do you have?
If this is a router?
On our's I use either the same size collets or a different collet and nut for other shank sizes. This makes tool changes pretty fast. Having an auto tool zero script and probe helps with that a lot.

[tommick]

I have a typical Chinese 2.2kW spindle and VFD and I generally use 1/4" shank bits for what I do so pretty much the collet and nut stay in place. I also have an auto tool zero script and probe so it's really not that hard for me to change tools but everything went so easily on Sintra expanded PVC that I'm just being a fussy old man about changing tools. As you know most of the problems with these machines are caused by the user, hah!

[LeeWay]

I can agree with that last sentence.

[victorofga]

sometime the aluface different material..

I found it when I had to cut several letters, and I had to use leftover materials.. some dibond has too gummy alu bonded onto.. its not a problem when you snap a straight parts, but could be nightmare when need to cut shape..

sure you set conventional milling, not climbing..
with pocketing, you punch into center, then bit moves out to perimeter.. as others mentioned above..

you might also try 1/4 bit and simply ""drilling"" into..

[RossMosh]

I've done ACM like the OP is talking about. Normally I would profile cut everything with an upcut bit. No ramping. Although I haven't had his problem, if I did, I would definitely pocket the holes. Again, no ramping is necessary. Also, you might find slowing the machine down is helpful.

[tommick]

Here's my current solution after testing making a bunch of holes in 3 mm Dibond with an Amana 51508 3/16 bit. In every trial with the 3/16" bit, it left a small circle of aluminum and forced it under the vinyl graphic that is on the Dibond. This damages the graphic. I tried both profile and pocket paths. This problem is from trying to route a .265" hole with a 3/16" cutter and the fact that the particular cutter has a flute that hangs down and mostly cuts around it's circumference. I changed to a 1/8" bit and it works perfectly. It's able to clear out the aluminum in the center as well as around the edge so the little circle of aluminum is never created.

Thank you all for your suggestions which helped me think about this problem more carefully and come to a solution. I'm sure there are other solutions and other cutters that might work well too.

Regards, TM

[fmc1228]

Here's my current solution after testing making a bunch of holes in 3 mm Dibond with an Amana 51508 3/16 bit. In every trial with the 3/16" bit, it left a small circle of aluminum and forced it under the vinyl graphic that is on the Dibond. This damages the graphic. I tried both profile and pocket paths. This problem is from trying to route a .265" hole with a 3/16" cutter and the fact that the particular cutter has a flute that hangs down and mostly cuts around it's circumference. I changed to a 1/8" bit and it works perfectly. It's able to clear out the aluminum in the center as well as around the edge so the little circle of aluminum is never created.

Thank you all for your suggestions which helped me think about this problem more carefully and come to a solution. I'm sure there are other solutions and other cutters that might work well too.

Regards, TM

Even though you seemed to have solved the issue, I'd like to throw my two cents in. I've been cutting DiBond of the same thickness for a few months now on my MultiCam. I had the same issue you did in the beginning. I switched to climb cutting as it's been working perfectly ever since. The top edge comes out great and the bottom edge just needs a tad bit of sanding to be safe for the end user to handle. I'm using a 1/8in spiral upcut carbide end mill from Onsrud. A straight flute cutter might even be a better solution to this material as it works great on 1/16in aluminum that we cut as well.

[Jon.N.CNC]

Even though you seemed to have solved the issue, I'd like to throw my two cents in. I've been cutting DiBond of the same thickness for a few months now on my MultiCam. I had the same issue you did in the beginning. I switched to climb cutting as it's been working perfectly ever since. The top edge comes out great and the bottom edge just needs a tad bit of sanding to be safe for the end user to handle. I'm using a 1/8in spiral upcut carbide end mill from Onsrud. A straight flute cutter might even be a better solution to this material as it works great on 1/16in aluminum that we cut as well.

I use an onsrud acrylic 4mm single flute downcut spiral on dibond also climb. Works very well, very smooth finish and both edges are good as long as the sheets held down well or you get a bit of chatter.

[tommick]

Thanks for the additional ideas. I'm getting great cuts but I will also try doing a climb cut on some scrap Dibond and see how that works. The Dibond swarf is weird and my dust extractor which is normally great has trouble sucking it up. It kind of comes out like plastic wool with chips of aluminum in it. It's kind of sticky too and I'm guessing that's from the adhesive that bonds the aluminum to the PVC. But I'm getting perfect edges and that's the bottom line for me. Dibond is not something that I plan to be cutting on a regular basis although sometimes when I say stuff like that then I end up eating my words!
Regards, TM