[Silver and gold for jewelry]*Laser for engraving/marking and cutting


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Thread: [Silver and gold for jewelry]*Laser for engraving/marking and cutting

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    Default [Silver and gold for jewelry]*Laser for engraving/marking and cutting

    Hi,

    Firstly, I'm new and I'd like to get help about this complex world. I've found this forums looking for on the Internet about what is the best laser, who can recommend and so on.

    Until 1 week ago we had a Gravograph IS400 for engraving plates, slaves, etc. but it is broken now and repair it it's so expensive. We are crazy because we have a lot of work and time is short, other jewelers with engraving machine are getting crazy with our work that we are delegating in them. That's clear, we were looking for a laser but no hurry up, but now... we need to buy one.

    I've asked to LaserStar, ROFIN, trotec, ... all of them with their features and characteristics but here in Spain we have SISMA and OROTIG with references. First one looks like the best, and model EASY-C 300F the business man from the company told to us a lot of wonderful things... It can cut more than 1,6mm of thickness in gold/silver, good definition, some color for photography engraving, can make dies for stamping... and changing the lens it can engrave commemorative plates... Even can engrave rings! So it's fantastic in everything except in price (more than 40000€) and workbench for engraving plates (180x180mm is a bit small).

    ROFIN has machines with similar characteristics (1,5mm cutting, engraving, rings...)...

    However if you ask to other companies from China, from USA, from... they tell you that engraving/marking and also cutting that thickness is impossible! You need 2 machines! They say that you can cut 1mm at maximum if you can engrave/marking with the same machine.

    So, who it's correct? Are ROFIN or SIGMA lying to us? Is there any other company with good characteristics and price? Anyone with experience in SIGMA?

    I'm going to put some characteristics we're looking for in this laser machines:

    -About 1,6mm of cutting or more for gold and silver.
    -Engraving/marking for plates, commemorative plates, slaves, rings (outside and inside), ...
    -Engraving photographies in plates
    -Dust/metal particles vacuum
    -Good speed (For example, EasyJewel V with 20W takes 3 minutes for cutting a circle of 1cm of diameter... It's too much, so I suppose power is important)
    -Good definition and it has to avoid leave burrs in pieces
    -Software
    -Learning course or something, better in Spanish because my employees don't know English

    Leave link to SISMA Laser Machine I've quoted: EASY, Laser marking systems, Laser – Sisma Jewellery

    Thank you and sorry for my bad English!

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    Default Re: [Silver and gold for jewelry]*Laser for engraving/marking and cutting

    Hi EstanisgM and welcome to the forum.

    It would be very difficult to get an objective recommendation on these brands and models. Considering the prices I doubt there are many companies using several different ones in production.
    Additionally, the western brands are notoriously secretive about the origin of the components they use. I have some experience with the Asian options. I am not an expert but I think I can give you some basic information.

    There are 2 types of fiber laser sources - MOPA and Q-Switched. MOPA provides a better control over the laser beam but it is slightly less efficient per watt level. Most machines for jewelry use Q-switched lasers.

    The size of the work area depends on the optics. Some machines allow you to change lenses for different applications. In general smaller work area means that the laser is more focused and you can get finer detail and better efficiency - a 20W may act as a 40W laser if it is focused on a twice smaller area.

    The depth of cutting would depend on the material, lens, and wattage. Gold is easier to cut than silver for example. You can do it on several passes with low wattage or at once with a more powerful laser. 1.5mm is ambitious. Also, the cuts are not going to be straight.

    It would be more economical if you get 2 machines - a fiber laser machine for engraving and a CNC Mill (like your old machine) for cutting thick sheets.

    As for the versatility of the machine - that would primarily depend on the software.

    I am curious what are the prices of the Sisma EASY line?



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    Default Re: [Silver and gold for jewelry]*Laser for engraving/marking and cutting

    Thank you for your 'basic' information (I think it's not so basic because looking for the Internet I couldn't find it and you explained it good ). Yes, like you say, offer for SISMA has a lense for engraving (with a work area) and other for cutting and other things with different work area (If I've not misunderstand).

    What you mean when you say the cuts aren't going to be straight? Distorted cutting above surface or in lateral?

    Maybe you're right, of course MAGIC 70 is a CNC Milling and it can do engrave, cutting and ring of course! Price? Less than 7000€ (+VAT). But laser allows making other things which people is looking for (for example marking slaves, engrave plates with patina...)

    Prices of SISMA? Well, we have two offer but SISMA EASY-C 300F (the expensive one with 30W, cutting 1,5mm or more, engrave and so on) is for 27750+21% VAT. Also the offer is more money because you have to add rings feature (2900+21% VAT), vacuum (980+21%VAT) and other things. It's a total of 32530 + 21% VAT.

    Thank you for your help

    Best,
    Estanis.



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    Default Re: [Silver and gold for jewelry]*Laser for engraving/marking and cutting

    Quote Originally Posted by EstanisgM View Post
    What you mean when you say the cuts aren't going to be straight? Distorted cutting above surface or in lateral?.
    Yes, lateral. The beam is usually focused on the top surface and it gets wider and out of focus when it goes deeper. Therefore the sides of the cut path will be slightly tilted. The angle would depend on the optics. At 0.5mm thickness will be difficult to notice, however at 1.5mm will be quite obvious.

    Actually, I thought the price would be higher and more in the range of ROFIN. Of course, it is difficult to comment on the prices without knowing what is inside the machine. ROFIN use only the latest and highest quality German and US technology and components.
    Probably it is a good idea to ask the SISMA sales rep about the origin of their laser generator and galvo scan head. A few months ago I contacted LaserStar and I was shocked to find that their "made in Amerca" machines are built primarily with cheap Chinese of-the-shelf components... Probably they work fine but you can get a similar machine straight from China for 1/3 of the price they are asking for. If you have enough business to justify buying proper, reliable European equipment, I would suggest doing that even if it is more expensive.

    There are actually very few machines designed specifically for the jewelry market. I never used one of them but I imagine the software they come with is more user-friendly and helps you positioning the graphics quickly and accurately on various parts. Software designed for mass production is much harder to set up initially and you'll have to go through the process again for every different piece. Positioning problems could be quite a problem if you work with expensive jewelry.

    There is one thing I would suggest to confirm before buying the machine - there are two different technologies used with the rotary systems:

    1. The so-called "handshaking method". The rotary will turn the ring at the desired angle but the machine can engrave only while the rotary is static.
    2. The "continuous method". the machine engraves while the rotary turns the ring.

    A lot of machines offer only the first option. Since SISMA EASY are marketed as jewelry equipment I presume they can do both but is worth checking.

    Another idea - adding a camera. It may help to position the graphics over difficult to work, unique pieces of jewelry. Not all the brands offer that tho.

    Last edited by Storen; 05-19-2018 at 12:10 PM.


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    Default Re: [Silver and gold for jewelry]*Laser for engraving/marking and cutting

    thank you so much for your help!

    Let's me check everything and I'll tell you about that if I have any dude.

    Have you checked technical page of SISMA EASY-C 300F? You can find it here

    Do you think 1,8mm as sales rep promise is possible? What about engrave if you change lens in 18x18cm plate? Enough power?

    Thank you so much!

    Best,
    Estanis.



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    Default Re: [Silver and gold for jewelry]*Laser for engraving/marking and cutting

    Quote Originally Posted by Storen View Post
    Actually, I thought the price would be higher and more in the range of ROFIN. Of course, it is difficult to comment on the prices without knowing what is inside the machine. ROFIN use only the latest and highest quality German and US technology and components.
    One user of this forum told me about ROFIN is crap because temperature after using it too much. What do you think? American technology + German technology sound fantastic for me (better than Chinese hehehe)

    Probably it is a good idea to ask the SISMA sales rep about the origin of their laser generator and galvo scan head. A few months ago I contacted LaserStar and I was shocked to find that their "made in Amerca" machines are built primarily with cheap Chinese of-the-shelf components... Probably they work fine but you can get a similar machine straight from China for 1/3 of the price they are asking for. If you have enough business to justify buying proper, reliable European equipment, I would suggest doing that even if it is more expensive.
    He told me that laser generator is SPI, a friend's told me that is from UK... I think UK is good in technology. Do you know it?

    About Chinese laser... or I have too bad luck or 2 contacts from laser in China (Superwavelaser and other one which was sent by my friend) have larger W (50 or 100) but they can make one thing (cutting or engraving), nor both neither 1,8mm like SISMA or ROFIN (although it has to be made by passing beam more than one time). Or my English is too bad (also my Spanish because the second one speaks it) or this world is too confused for me.

    There are actually very few machines designed specifically for the jewelry market. I never used one of them but I imagine the software they come with is more user-friendly and helps you positioning the graphics quickly and accurately on various parts. Software designed for mass production is much harder to set up initially and you'll have to go through the process again for every different piece. Positioning problems could be quite a problem if you work with expensive jewelry.
    Yes, I have understood talking with them that with their software is easy to use, they give to us a small course (1 day ROFIN, 1 week I think SISMA).

    If you know a jewelry lasers brand from USA it could be great
    On the other hand, I'd like to know if I can ask price in other country of European Union about SISMA or ROFIN to avoid intermediaries.

    Other guy offers to me another machine from China, my friend has seen the features and he told me that is better than the others (it has Raycus which is like iPhone in smartphones... according to my friend's words). But the guy who offer it to me... I don't trust him... You know, this person who everything they have can be defined by 'wow' and 'fantastic' and later it's a .... At least I think like that (and other people). If you want, I can send you his email with the info and you can tell me the opinion hehehe

    Thank you so much!

    Last edited by EstanisgM; 05-30-2018 at 04:22 PM.


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    Default Re: [Silver and gold for jewelry]*Laser for engraving/marking and cutting

    Quote Originally Posted by EstanisgM View Post
    One user of this forum told me about ROFIN is crap because temperature after using it too much. What do you think? American technology + German technology sound fantastic for me (better than Chinese hehehe)
    All air-cooled lasers get hot if they have been used too much. They are probably specified to run constantly for a maximum of 8h. a day. That is normal for a desktop machine. The ones designed to run 24h a day are a different class and significantly more expensive.

    Quote Originally Posted by EstanisgM View Post
    He told me that laser generator is SPI, a friend's told me that is from UK... I think UK is good in technology. Do you know it?
    I also heard good things about SPI. So it looks like SISMA are a good low-cost alternative to ROFIN.

    Quote Originally Posted by EstanisgM View Post
    About Chinese laser... or I have too bad luck or 2 contacts from laser in China
    Ha ha yes working with China is challenging I know that all too well.

    Quote Originally Posted by EstanisgM View Post
    Yes, I have understood talking with them that with their software is easy to use, they give to us a small course (1 day ROFIN, 1 week I think SISMA).
    I didn't mean the ease of use. Some machines/software have additional functions and devices mend to help you position the graphics on difficult-to-work pieces and avoid costly errors. I would be surprised if ROFIN engineers haven't provided some good solutions. Probably SISMA as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by EstanisgM View Post
    Other guy offers to me another machine from China, my friend has seen the features and he told me that is better than the others (it has Raycus which is like iPhone in smartphones... according to my friend's words).
    I consider Raycus average. There are worse brands but there are also better lasers produced in Asia.
    IPG is considered the best brand (quality and reliability) available on the Chinese market. They have one factory in Germany and one in Russia I think. The ones available in China come from Russia (I may be wrong about Russia but they are definitely not German made).

    Quote Originally Posted by EstanisgM View Post
    If you know a jewelry lasers brand from USA it could be great
    ROFIN-Coherent is the only one I know. I wouldn't consider LaserStar American since they sell Chinese lasers.

    Last edited by Storen; 05-30-2018 at 11:25 PM.


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    Default Re: [Silver and gold for jewelry]*Laser for engraving/marking and cutting

    for Silver and gold for jewelry working,STYLECNC IPG fiber laser is not bad choose. It can cut high-refletion materials.

    STYLECNC is a guaranteed manufacturer for CNC Router, Laser Cutter, Laser Marker, Laser Engraver, Wood Lathe and Plasma Cutter. Official website: http://www.stylecnc.com/


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    Default Re: [Silver and gold for jewelry]*Laser for engraving/marking and cutting

    Quote Originally Posted by Storen View Post
    All air-cooled lasers get hot if they have been used too much. They are probably specified to run constantly for a maximum of 8h. a day. That is normal for a desktop machine. The ones designed to run 24h a day are a different class and significantly more expensive.
    Ok, thank you.

    I also heard good things about SPI. So it looks like SISMA are a good low-cost alternative to ROFIN.
    Great. However, the seller has sent a video and times of cutting a small heart in a 1,83mm depth plate... 70W-> 7min; 50W->6,12min; 30W->11,06min... I think it's too high for a small thing... Imagine bigger things with difficult lines. I can send you a video if you like.

    Ha ha yes working with China is challenging I know that all too well.
    However, price is fantastic. Remember the guy who is not too much reliable and his laser is from China? Well, his laser provide from a company in other city. Owner wants to speak with us (as a background) and it could be interesting because their characteristics are great and price is cheaper than ROFIN and SISMA.

    I didn't mean the ease of use. Some machines/software have additional functions and devices mend to help you position the graphics on difficult-to-work pieces and avoid costly errors. I would be surprised if ROFIN engineers haven't provided some good solutions. Probably SISMA as well.
    Ok, I understood. Thank you.

    I consider Raycus average. There are worse brands but there are also better lasers produced in Asia.
    IPG is considered the best brand (quality and reliability) available on the Chinese market. They have one factory in Germany and one in Russia I think. The ones available in China come from Russia (I may be wrong about Russia but they are definitely not German made).
    Do you know a brand who use IPG?

    ROFIN-Coherent is the only one I know. I wouldn't consider LaserStar American since they sell Chinese lasers.
    Ok, thank you! Although I'm a big fan of USA's technology, I'm afraid of commercial war that Trump is making... I wish it won't be nothing. And I don't like China has more laser and things lately
    On the other hand we're thinking in buying a cutting laser machine for cut any kind of depth in silver and gold (we can avoid oil and other liquids) and also buy a cnc engraving machine like MAGIC 70 (for plates, slaves, rings...). What do you think?

    MAGIC? Roland? Gravograph? Is there a good brand in America for rings, slaves, plates?

    Thank you for all.

    stylecnc, thank you so much. I'll investigate about it

    Last edited by EstanisgM; 06-12-2018 at 05:38 PM.


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    Default Re: [Silver and gold for jewelry]*Laser for engraving/marking and cutting

    Quote Originally Posted by EstanisgM View Post
    I can send you a video if you like.
    Yes, please. I am very interested to take a look.

    Quote Originally Posted by EstanisgM View Post
    However, price is fantastic.
    Is he a reseller? Unless he has a local repair/service center it would be better to buy the machine directly from the Chinese factory.

    Quote Originally Posted by EstanisgM View Post
    Do you know a brand who use IPG?
    All Asian brands offer them as options for their custom configurations.

    Quote Originally Posted by EstanisgM View Post
    I'm a big fan of USA's technology, I'm afraid of commercial war that Trump is making...
    Sadly, the US economy is going downhill and Trump as a neoliberal puppet is only accelerating the process. My hope is that the European brands will be more resilient.

    Quote Originally Posted by EstanisgM View Post
    also buy a cnc engraving machine like MAGIC 70 (for plates, slaves, rings...). What do you think?
    MAGIC are overall decent machines. I have one. The hardware is made in the US and the software in South Korea. The best thing about this engraving technology is that it doesn't oxidase the metal (silver for example) and it doesn't require cleaning. However, the engraving is very shallow. The software is buggy but I found some walkarounds.



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    Default Re: [Silver and gold for jewelry]*Laser for engraving/marking and cutting

    Quote Originally Posted by Storen View Post
    Yes, please. I am very interested to take a look.


    Is he a reseller? Unless he has a local repair/service center it would be better to buy the machine directly from the Chinese factory.
    I think he is making his own machine with pieces from China.

    All Asian brands offer them as options for their custom configurations.
    Ok, great.

    Sadly, the US economy is going downhill and Trump as a neoliberal puppet is only accelerating the process. My hope is that the European brands will be more resilient.


    MAGIC are overall decent machines. I have one. The hardware is made in the US and the software in South Korea. The best thing about this engraving technology is that it doesn't oxidase the metal (silver for example) and it doesn't require cleaning. However, the engraving is very shallow. The software is buggy but I found some walkarounds.
    Very shallow? At least with Gravograph you can make it as deep as you want event to put patina if you refer that.

    I'm contacting with a Chinese company who make laser with requirements you like and they are offering to me an UV marking laser of 10W... They say it's so powerful like 100W fiber laser of other kind, that's true? Price is cheap (about 27000$, although I have to confirm if it includes vacuum and cabine). Where is the trick?



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    100w UV laser $27000?seems low but maybe somethings unreasonable....
    As i known UV laser is very expensive...you consulted from Hanslaser or what?



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