What do you think about the Glowforge approach?

[Storen]

What do you think about their design, features, pricing, market target?


Some recent news from their website:

- The development team reported some serious delays. The release of their pre-ordered machines will be pushed with another 9 months. By reading the comments on their forum, this came as a cold shower to their fanbase.

- They raised the prices significantly above what they originally advertised. Now their MSRP are between $4000 for the 40W model and $8000 for the 45W model.
Initially they marketed their machines as "laser 3D printers for enthusiasts". I wonder if they can hold to this statement with these prices. If nothing changes the Pro model is going to be the most expensive 45W Glass laser on the planet.

- They had some disappointing experience with the Chinese assembly factories and the quality control. They are moving the assembly to the US.

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[ger21]

Hard to say until they actually deliver machines.

[Downunder35m]

I was a fan of their machines when they started but can't even be bothered following them anymore.
Like so many other kickstarter projects it caused a great hype, followed by ad campaigns on popular websites including to offer their machines as prices for contests.
And again like so many kickstarter projects the birthing problems never stop.
At a stage where funding was getting a bit tight they offered the standard machine for just over 2000$ so I got interested.
Turned out postage to me would add almost 1000$ including taxes - not attractive at all.
I do understand that I have to pay import taxes but a shipping cost of over 600$ alone was just a downer.
The concept of a laser machine basically adjusting to whatever you want is great but it also begs the question if it will really work for the customer.
Support is one the things that makes good machines expensive in the price.
If you have a problem you call someone and the person knows what to do.
If the company already struggles to keep the delivery promise up I highly doubt that it will end here.

I have watched quite a few kickstarter campaigns, some out of personal interest, others as they sounded nice for my future projects.
With many of them, once the kickstarter stuff was over you never heard anything at all.
No shops selling them, no relpies to emails, just nothing at all.
IMHO it is not really worth putting your hopes and money into a kickstarter project until you actually see it in the shops.
Otherwise you might just end up with a novelty item of no further use.

[cinematic2]

My opinion from the first time I saw this "product": 100% fake.
Exactly the same as was "The First Desktop SLS 3D Printer" project called NORGE by 3 Italians from English Dover.
I made it got closed by Kickstarter.

[gfacer2]

I'd say if you think its bad now wait until 20-25% of the tubes fail while under a warranty that people expect to actually be honoured.

[daniellyall]

for what they are they could just get everything from china most do and charge a tonne. it's nothing new

[Downunder35m]

I can't really agree with that.
Sure the hardware and assembly can happen in asia but there real problem is the software.
If you check the extra long feature list you have to wonder how to even start to put this into a firmware and suitable controller.
And that seems to be problem on their end now.
Manufacturing costs are higher than initially calculated, the firmware and software is still not working as it should (in some aspects) and a lot of angry supporters are still waiting for the shippment.
In a rapidly growing market this can mean by the time the problems are worked out someone else will offer a similar device for less money.
I mean, you buy a brand new computer with the latest specs today and in two months time a gamer would tell you that your machine is outdated.
IMHO a more basic approach would have been more succesfull.
Start with a basic but good laser cutter/engraver and allow for the planned futured updates and upgrades.
Trying to make a working machine with all these features in a way that all works as planned is next to impossible, at least in the timeframe Glowforge estimated.

[daniellyall]

it's called shooting your self in the foot, for what it is you can get the same with a ruff controller for $600 a better controller A few 00 more, a ok machine and controller at a 000 or 2 or by a cheap machine stick a good controller in it, there is so much on offer out there you don't need to get a made in china controller at all. you can get a program with a 6th order planer free and the control is a few 00.
they stuffed up but I hope they don't go the way that 3D printer went so many people out off pocket and the inventor's name is mud

[Downunder35m]

As far as I can tell they are trying to satisfy the deliveries as soon as possible.
But as you said, the trust in the product is already low due to the delays and ongoing problems.
Prices for 32bit controllers are falling, although most don't really have great support or availability for that matter.
But with them new firmwares are starting to pop up that offer any sort of feature we might want.
As with 3D printers the problem for the customer is to find a product that will survive and stays upgradable.
Take Stuffmaker with their 3D printers, for years they pump out inferior products with basically no support as soon as you start complaining too much - still people buy their crap because it is cheap.
I guess it is only a matter of a short time and we will see firmware that can be setup like kits.
Define what type of hardware you use, add a laser or router head plus automatic bel levelling....
For Glowforge it could really mean that by the time they can actually satisfy the orders their product will be outdated in terms of price and features.
The price and especially their shipping costs are already something of concern to me.
Just feels wrong to change the price so many times, including several special offers for limited times just to inflate it even more with insane shipping rates.
Time will tell.....

[abyss]

Before they approach market is a like talking about Unicorn or Holy Grail. So exciting and much closer to Hogwart than real world.

[Storen]

I have mixed feelings about them.

On the negative side - They started by spending piles of money on advertising. Most inventors see these amounts of cash only in their wet dreams and may go suicidal if they know the actual number. When someone is willing to invest that much in advertising usually he has the necessary funds to backup the development without any crowdsourcing. This makes me suspect that they used the crowdsourcing community mainly for marketing purposes and expanding their budgets rather than finansing the project. This might be seen by many as a dishonest move.

Another thing is they advertise their machine as a "3D Printer” knowing perfectly well that printers do not cut. They are not idiots. They knew that if they honestly describe their project as yet another small laser engraving/cutting machine (that doesn't offer anything radically innovative), most people who weren't familiar with this technology would rather spend their thousands on something available on the market, than lock their money and wait for years for this "miraculous" technology. I am guessing they consider this false description and exploiting the lack of information of the crowdsourcing community as “very smart”…

Recently I read some quite sarcastic comments they made comparing their future machines with the popular K40 that sells for $350 (and the production cost likely doesn’t exceed $100). Humoring the design and features of something that is made for different market group and cost 10-20 times less is hardly a sample professional ethics. The right question is - are they capable of offering something better in this price range?

On the positive side - Initially I got exited when I heard someone is trying to bring this traditional industrial technology to the realm of the popular office equipment.
This means more intuitive, user friendly, aesthetic design and lower prices. Don’t we all want to see that? The only way to reduce prices without sacrificing quality is to increase the volume of production and reorient the products to different market targets. Great. This would also stimulate the established brands to exit their sweet lethargic state and start innovating. While in the other technology fields everything is boiling with ideas we haven’t seen any serious improvement attempts from them for the past couple decades...
Of course now after Glowforge announced they are raising the prices and intent to sell 45W Glass-tube machine for $8000 I am no longer so excited.

Chalenges:
Their design is based on cheap, modular, polymer housing. I am sure many designers were tempted to build the machine with a sheet-metal structure covered by plastic shells but lasers are dangerous and using metal is the safer route. I am sure it is possible but is going to be a challenge.

They intend to move the cooling and the fume filtering systems inside the body. Laser machines are sensitive to vibrations and resonance issues that is why it is safer to keep them separately. All these pumps and additional motors inside are gong to make the situation more challenging.

By looking at the design there is very little space for good cooling and filtration systems. I expect their performance to be seriously inferior to the existing external units. Which means more toxic fumes to breathe and higher risks of overheating (shortening the laser lifespan). Probably it is not impossible to design something descent but it is going to be difficult.

They are going to use cheap glass tubes with limited warranty and limited life expectancy. I think they are not straightforward enough with their clients about that. The after-sale support may quickly turn into a nightmare.

The machine will have fixed work-tray (bed), the head will have some small realtime hight-adjustment similar to the metal cutting lasers. When their fanbase figures that these expensive machines can’t be used for engraving deeper objects while 95% of the other laser machines in this class can, there will be some further disappointment.

[vallen]

I'm in line for a Glowforge, and with every day that goes by, I'm less and less impressed, simply by the mere gimmickry of the features, hype and massive advertising -but also the target audience.

As a paid "investor", I get access to the internal user group- and that, has been the most (dis)enlightening: For the most part, the users seem to be inexperienced. Now, I don't mean that to be rude, I'm just saying that these are folks that: "don't want to mess with computers"; not sure the diff. between raster/ vector; no clue about CAD/CAM; and according to a recent poll on the board, ...Here's a quote:
"it's small and looks pretty. I don't have, like, an awesome woodworking shop with woodworky things and a concrete floor and a shopvac. I have an office. It's a pretty office. I like how it looks. I may be the only one who cares, but I like that the glowforge is aesthetically pleasing. Everything else I've seen, Chinese and American and cheap and super-expensive, is pretty ugly. It's stupid, probably, but I don't want to look at the laser equivalent of an iron lung for hours and hours every single day."

That's when I made the decision to pull the plug. Not my group. It will probably be a fine product, but for someone who wants to push boundries, void the warranty and break the safety features, it's likely going to be a bigger, more wattage (on paper at least) ugly Chinese laser for me.

[cinematic2]

It's stupid, probably, but I don't want to look at the laser equivalent of an iron lung for hours and hours every single day."

Yes, it is. All this project is for such stupid idiots.
No matter how laser machine looks like. But does matter if it exists and works
Honestly?
I am 99% sure all you Glowforge investors will loose your money.
Why? Because there is no such technology that will let use laser cutter at office without smoke evacuator that is not cheap.

I saw other Kickstarter action (Norge) that promised 3D powder printers in very low price.
It looks exactly same way as f... Glowforge looks like and that was a scam.
I made that Kickstarter closed this action.
Glowforge was prepared much better but I am sure it is a scam too.

[vallen]

When I read that line about "woodworky things" - while standing in my loud, dusty, "woodworky" shop- I realize it's not for me.
I DO think it will work for some people- As in, a low-powered desktop laser for people who can't be bothered to measure.
Refund should get me a decently larger Chinese beater laser (might look like an iron lung, but that's fine with me) and room left over for a Festool item or 2.

[daniellyall]

words can break a campaign "woodworky things" just dumb.

it's not a scam just people who don't know to target properly, the other machines the same size what are made in china are well just as good. and cost less I asked how their machine compares to one brand that are every where on flea bay. the whatever 30

there response stoped me from getting one, it was a stupid answer.

you see the same thing with 3D printers most people who use them are inexperienced and don't know what they are saying. it's a CNC machine not a computer or toy it's a different kettle of fish.

most times it's dangerous what they do or don't do there are a lot of people with the same 3D printer I have and they have burned the control boards or set them on fire.
tiny wires don't handle high current to well you tell them it's the wire size what made it happen they say you're wrong and they wonder why I dont have there problems