How Reliable Are Laser Power Supplies? How about Full Spectrum's Warranty?


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Thread: How Reliable Are Laser Power Supplies? How about Full Spectrum's Warranty?

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    Default How Reliable Are Laser Power Supplies? How about Full Spectrum's Warranty?

    This is the power supply that I received with a 90W Reci W2 equipped 24x36 Full Spectrum laser.



    To the best of my knowledge, it appears to be a 60WB model. I ran the machine at full power once or twice, probably less than 1 minute total. I believe the meter displayed around 25-28mA which would be correct for the W2. The highest power I ever cut at is typically 50%, since going above this gives very little additional cutting power. Lots of cuts are done at 1% or as low as .2% which is the lowest setting possible to get the tube to fire. The machine was purchased just over 3 months ago, and supposedly came with a 1 year warranty from FS Laser. However, the website is terribly unclear as to what that means.

    About two weeks ago, the power supply failed. I walked away from the machine since it was cutting a sheet of double liner adhesive tape that would take 28 minutes. When I returned, the laser stop firing halfway into the job. The power was set to .2%, speed 100%. I pulled the supply and the fuse was really cooked. It was a 5A 250V. I called FS Laser and they told me to toss another fuse into it, this time a 8A one. I put a replacement 5A one in and it popped right away on powerup. The supply looked fine internally aside from the Chinese oil all over the casing that was there from new. I followed up with FS with several additional phone calls, and told them the PS isnt working at all, popping fuses on powerup. The tech support guy there was fairly nice, but is likely terribly unorganized or ignorant since my messages or promised calls back with warranty info were never received. It took over a week, 1-2 calls a day, before I got them to tell me to send it back and they would look at it. The tech guy said he thinks the machine only has a 90 day warranty, and said the replacement unit would be $500 if thats the case. I forwarded my invoice they emailed me, since apparently he did not have a copy. I send the power supply to them, with the two different invoices I received when the laser was purchased, a little note, date of failure, email, and phone number. The day after they received the power supply, I got my first phone call back from them. They said they put a 10A fuse in and it blew, so its done. Big surprise there. He then followed up by saying they looked into the warranty, and this would not 'fall under the scope of the warranty' on our machine, since we did not purchase the 2 year $1,000 additional warranty. He then also informed me a replacement would be $600. Yes, $100 more than previously quoted. I politely told him to send us the failed power supply back. I received a phone call later that day saying they would be willing to offer me the power supply for $400.

    Is it likely this failure is attributed to the power supply being underrated? The machine comes with a 60W tube by default, it looks like they use the 60W power supply with the 90W tube. How long do these normally last? Is it worthwhile to keep a spare on hand? The machine has been down for over two weeks now and its becoming an issue. A DY13 power supply should be here from china in a few days. It was something like $240 shipped.

    Anyone ever have a warranty issue with FS Laser? I was really nice to them and they handled the situation very poorly. I left out quite a few details that overall attributed to me deciding to not go to them for the marking laser I intend to purchase. I expected paying a premium for a Chinese machine would give me US support and a company that stands behind the product. That does not appear to be the case, but I would like to hear anyone else thats dealt with FS's tech support.

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    Looking at the FSE site, the warranty on the drop down pricing menu for the specs says,
    "No extended warranty 1 year excludes consumables/shipping)."

    Are they saying that the power supply is a consumable item?
    Does any one think that a power supply is a consumable item?

    Also, when one pays $1500 for a 90 watt upgrade, do they really only upgrade the laser and not the power supply?

    I have a FSE Hobby Pro and it has been very good. I was seriously thinking of ordering one of the larger machines because of the Retina Engrave software.

    I was thinking that FSE was finally started acting like a real legitimate company, but now I guess that I'll wait awhile before recommending them again or ordering again.

    Please keep us informed as to the outcome of this issue.

    Dennis



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    I really don't know whats going on over there. I'm about 100% sure the website said 1 year warranty at the time of purchase. The guy on the phone said it was 3 months. I recall looking at the drop down box for the $1,000 2 year warranty and wondering why its $1,000 for an extra year on an $8,000 machine. They don't cover 'consumables' of course, so whats going to fail thats THAT expensive? Up until the last call he sounded like it wouldn't be covered, or almost like this kind of thing is never covered. He was quite unprofessional, often somewhat nervous, and was unsure of what to say at times. Basically, he made it quite clear they didn't want to cover it, and finally did say its not covered under the warranty, whereas up until that point he said it simply was out of warranty. If these power supplies are fairly reliable, I don't see how its called a consumable. I didn't really find anything that says what the warranty DOES cover, but it sounds like its next to nothing unless you get the extended warranty which is quite expensive relative to the machine cost.

    I'm not really trying to badmouth FSE, even if thats what this is probably turning into. I'm just dissatisfied with the exceedingly poor service received that resulted in more downtime and hassles than required.

    I'm happy with the machine, for the price its fine. It was in 'right off the boat' condition when it was received. Some sort of sticky coolant type of stuff on the inside, and a few pounds of greese smeared over every metal surface. It took me a few days to get it running and cleaned up. The refrigerated chiller was shipped tipped over when it could have easily been right side up on the pallet. The Retina Engrave 3D isnt nearly as exciting as I had hoped. I actually find it limiting in many ways over Moshidraw. I have frequent software crashes, and lots of picky workarounds are needed quite frequently, just like Moshi. To some extent it has less features as well. I couldn't get the auto focus to work how I would expect so I removed that, and the red dot was impossible to align to the same point as the laser tube so that was chucked as well. It's a capable machine, but just like running Moshi, it requires an experienced operator to get it to work how one might expect. The software never really holds settings even if I set it up in the config file. Rasters are handled very poorly, and the resolution options are a joke. It's exceedingly difficult to manage layers, it forgets layer settings, its nearly impossible to save a job with configurable speed and power settings. However, I do like that the machine is capable of storing and running jobs standalone. Once the job is made, it's not configureable from there. Theres no way to have the machine pause and wait for user input between layers, it homes to the wrong corner, the kickback after homing is not configureable, the touch buttons are hard to use without looking at, I cant set cut order for more than a few layers... I have a lot more complaints, but it does an OK job.

    I don't plan on having this go anywhere. I was just wondering if these could be considered consumables, or if they blow up often for no reason. I honestly didn't think FSL would cover it before I called, I just wish they would have told me it wouldn't be covered earlier, and it would be nice if they actually called me back.



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    Chinese lasers should have a 1-2 year warranty from the manufacturer. The tube is normally between 3 and 8 months depending on which one you buy. A new RECI power supply from China should cost about $250 + shipping (Probably around $50-$75). If you want it sooner or want to deal with a US vendor, Lightobject has them available for about $410 including shipping. Get the 120-180W one.

    The rest of your issues with FSL, did you pay with a credit card? If you did, contact them. Tell them your issue. I'd give FSL one last chance to fix the situation but if you contact your CC company, they will likely put the entire purchase into dispute or at least the value the repair would cost. Credit card companies are very good about protecting the consumer and in many cases, over protecting the consumer.

    You could try reaching out to Gweike who I believe FSL buy their lasers from. They might take care of your problem without having to deal with FSL. I wouldn't count on it, but it's a possibility.



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    I got the DY13, which is made for the W4.

    Free Shipping DY13 Power supply for RECI w4 Co2 laser tube-in Laser Equipment Parts from Industry & Business on Aliexpress.com

    Heres the DY10 thats made for the W2.

    Free Shipping DY10 Power supply for RECI w2 Co2 laser tube-in Laser Equipment Parts from Industry & Business on Aliexpress.com

    You can get these a little cheaper from a bit more shady sellers and places. DHL from China typically takes 3 days, so this is a very fast method.

    I don't intend on pursuing any further action with FSL. I would have gave up long ago normally, I was testing them, and they failed. I don't want to buy things from a company that treats customers this way, it has nothing to do with the money.

    Any US based companies that sell marking lasers and support them?



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    I'd assume the US has similar to the Sale Of Goods act?

    A 60 watt supply running a 90 watt tube IS going to end the same way every time, the supplies just can't take it.

    Before sending it back if you do get pictures and signed statements from a witness that it is the incorrect supply.

    I can't say I'm surprised though given the number of negative reports I hear about FSE.

    best wishes

    Dave



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    Seems I am not the only one that got crap product and sevice from FSE?

    I do not know why people keep buying from them.



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    Zom,

    Sorry to hear of your troubles but as Bec and Dave said, I am not surprised. I have even tried to cover for them at times but instead they are getting worse. If FSL is still purchasing their larger machines from Gweike then the power supply comes with a 1 year warranty from Gweike and they are an excellent company. If you provide us with your machine number that is on the back of the machine we will contact them for you and try to get a free replacement supply for you.

    Unfortunately FSL is all about the $$ in the short term and could care less about the long term relationship. We jokingly say they are our best salesmen.

    You can email me the numbers at John@HurricaneLasers.com and I will try and take care of you.

    Happy Holidays!

    John



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    I've had the same issue of FSE not bothering to reply to my emails a couple of times. Fortunately in my case they did resolve each of my issues after enough pestering, but both times I went away feeling like I'd talked them into doing me a huge favour.



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    New supply showed up today. It's the 130W model, which happens to be substantially larger than the previous 60W model. It has 4 larger package power devices heat sunk to the bottom of the case, whereas the other model had 2. Output transformers appear to be the same.



    Anyone know what the adjustment pots do?



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    The supply is installed and working fine. It looks like it's producing a cleaner edge on acrylic as well... I had to shift the signal wires over one pin in the connector, which Jeff at FSL was nice enough to help me with.

    I set the 100% power to 25mA, which is the max power Reci rates the W2 at for the 10,000 HR life. Before, it was about 28.5mA and the old supply didn't have an externally accessible adjustment.

    If you want technical support and are willing to put on the pressure to make sure you actually get an answer, FSE appears to be fine. Just don't expect them to replace hardware. At least now, if the power supply outlasts the tube, I can pop a W6 in there.



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    Just for comparison and future reference, here is the internals on the old supply.





    Note, the big power filter caps are not name brand and 85ºC rated, whereas all the small ones are 105ºC rated Rubycon. The new DY13 has 105ºC brand name caps all around. Both boards had some brownish powder residue on the PCB's that might have been residue from a flux wash. I brushed it off before these pictures were taken. A few smaller caps were touching larger power resistors in the new supply, probably not the best placement for long life depending on resistor dissipation.



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    If you want technical support and are willing to put on the pressure to make sure you actually get an answer, FSE appears to be fine
    I don't tend to pressurise companies into doing what I have already paid for I just vote with my wallet and go elsewhere in future while trying to ensure others don't make the same mistakes I have

    best wishes

    Dave



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    It really depends on the circumstances. If you need the machine to ship out of the US, or need it quickly, options are very limited for the lower cost Chinese machines.

    I'm trying to leave my opinion out of it and let anyone reading decide for themselves. I've dealt with far worse companies. The tech support guy is quite helpful, he just can be hard to reach at times, and most times did not return my calls. It is quite obvious FSE has little desire to provide support beyond the sale. They pay the one tech support guy to put out fires, and thats all they want to know about it.

    Dealing with a Chinese reseller or manufacturer directly tends to be far worse. About the only contact info you usually have is email, and they can quite easily just ignore undesirable emails. Tech support can be a nightmare with the language barrier, and replacement parts can be very challenging to get. The 'Warranty' tends to mean, send the broken part back to China, and they will replace it if you pay shipping. Only problem is, shipping both ways costs more than just buying the part from them, and it takes a lot longer. Sure, some companies are really nice and send replacement parts out right away, but those tend to be the ones that are charging you enough to be able to do so. The ones that are reluctant to send out parts are likely making very little money off selling these items, and sending you a replacement would probably make the sale a loss for them.



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    FSL by ZOMGVTEK, on Flickr



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    If you need the machine to ship out of the US, or need it quickly, options are very limited for the lower cost Chinese machines
    What about Rabbit Laser? Ray Scott is a decent chap and the machines are ultra reliable (I've had 3 of the UK models the same as the Rabbit Versions)

    cheers

    Dave



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    Hurricane helped me find out the power supply is actually under warranty with G Weike. It appears to be quite a bit nicer company than FSL.

    If the broken one ever shows up back from FSL, I might try and peruse that avenue. I would have picked it up, but they were closed. I'll have to snoop around when i'm back there in January.



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    I'd pursue it Zom, if you don't companies like FSL will continue to give people shoddy service and get away with it.

    FSL need the learn customers pay our salaries, they keep our businesses running and they provide us with a future.
    Treating paying customers, or customers of ANY kind badly just ins't acceptable these days.

    Every company owner makes mistakes or has the occasional problem but as companies it's how we deal with those mistakes that matters.

    The bottom line is unhappy customers don't come back.

    best wishes

    Dave



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    Quote Originally Posted by ZOMGVTEK View Post
    Hurricane helped me find out the power supply is actually under warranty with G Weike. It appears to be quite a bit nicer company than FSL.

    If the broken one ever shows up back from FSL, I might try and peruse that avenue. I would have picked it up, but they were closed. I'll have to snoop around when i'm back there in January.
    Wouldn't be hard.

    Pretty much ANY company is better with customer service and quality product than FSE.

    After the shoddy TWO machines I recieved from FSE, I went with a Chinese company and the machine has run perfectly straight out of the crate. None of the two non functioning power supplies, one faulty CO2 tubes and two bad RE and motor control cards and nearly 12 months constant down time that I had wrong with the Full Spectrum Deluxe Hobby Lasers.

    People may bag the chinese lasers, but I know of three exactly the same as mine within 40 minutes drive of me, all from the same company, and they have all worked flawlessly, despite two of them arriving with the metal pallet they were shipped on being mangled in transit (mine being one of them).

    Hi Henry, btw.



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    I just flashed the Retina Engrave 3D board over with the new firmware and it added a few nice touches. It's getting closer to my final goal of having someone other than me being able to use the machine with ease.

    US software and support is nice to have, even if it is quite poor. I can manage with hardware problems, but software problems can be a serious issue. So far FSE has been quite good at getting back to me with answers to my likely unusual software related questions.

    That said, of course they SHOULD stand behind the hardware. Looks like they don't really care about the hardware.



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How Reliable Are Laser Power Supplies? How about Full Spectrum's Warranty?

How Reliable Are Laser Power Supplies? How about Full Spectrum's Warranty?

How Reliable Are Laser Power Supplies? How about Full Spectrum's Warranty?