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  1. #21
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    Default Re: 5-axis for machining metals

    Thank you guys for your thoughts.

    As I am buying an extra motor and driver, I will be tempted to try a direct connection to 4th axis, instead of Tormach solution. Al thou they do look pretty plug and play solution.

    What I am considering is the motion controller.

    What I used before, on my 1st machine, is a simple breakout board, and Mach3 as a motion controler, but now I am looking for a standalone connection.

    This is something I am lurking about, so maybe you can help out.

    CSMIO/IP-M 4 axis motion controller 4 axis Ethernet Motion Controller (STEP/DIR)

    SMC6480 Leadshine 4 axis motion controller Leadshine Technology Co., Ltd.

    6 Axis Ethernet SmoothStepper Motion Control Board with Terminals for Mach3, Mach4 : is in the loop, but I dont know much about it, and I believe that above solution should work better. (Remark: My opinion is based on apsolutly nothing)

    Budget is to go up to 250-300 Euros/USD for a quality ethernet motion controler, used with Mach3/4 or standalone motion controler with screen and commands.

    Idea is to build a quality machine, with quality components, which will be later upgraded with ISEL 2.2 KWh ATC spindle.



  2. #22
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    Default Re: 5-axis for machining metals

    hi iopata i work on an trunnion setup i have already the worm drive at home but first i do the frankenstein version using an manual 4 th axis and konvert it to cnc one which carries then the trunnion using the roundino as 5 th axis i will then measure the "errors" in the system and see how far theory and real world are sepereate this frankenstein system you can easily connect to any dir step driven system so if you are interested i ll do extea video for you


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  3. #23
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    Default Re: 5-axis for machining metals

    Hello Tkamsker,

    I would love if you could a video, as I need all the info I could get.
    I will do my Frankestein, and see how it goes from there.
    Tormah solution is really an option, if the direct mount fails.



  4. #24
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    Default Re: 5-axis for machining metals

    Hello Guys

    I a bit baffled with the design.

    Thing that bother me is the design itself, and rigidity of the system.

    I am designing a cnc mill something similar to Gabriels (aka Katran), and now I am wondered by the rigidity of that machine.
    5-axis for machining metals-large-jpg
    5-axis for machining metals-large-jpg

    My main concern is the rigidity of the Z axis, for cutting iron and steel. As I would be doing some light pressure mold production, and I want the machine to be rigid enough, but on the other hand, to be simple in design.
    Linear guides will be between 25 mm and 35 mm, so there should be a major stiffness in the machine.
    I know that for proper pressure modling cutting, there should be weight and stiffness in the machine, but I would go with conservative cutting, and upgrade my machines/knowledge from there.

    Another option is to build the Fixed gantry for the Z-axis, and put the sliding table beneath it. A big gantry bridge would be built, and it should be more than enough.
    Also, I have read somewhere, that single ballscrew table is a bad design, and that there should be 2 motors per axis for the better stiffness.
    My doubt in that claim is that with 25 mm ballscrew, and 25 linear guides, there should not be a problem with the width of the table of 400 mm.

    Correct me if I am wrong please.

    @Tkamsker any news about the video?



  5. #25
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    Default Re: 5-axis for machining metals

    hi i did get a nasty cold so plan is to do it this weekend


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  6. #26
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    Default Re: 5-axis for machining metals

    I have been playing with the design, and I was changing my mind like a girl in a shoe shop.

    I wanted to make the Z-axis fixed, but I will make it move on X-axis, while Y will be moving table.

    The profiles are 80x80 N mm, and 160x80N. Fixed Gantry is made of 2 latter profiles, and should be tough enough.

    Working are is 400x400 mm, while Z axis is still undefined, but I am probably looking for 200 mm.

    Steel plate is my current working area but I will make it modular, meaning for each job, there will be different working plate, and this will be a base plate/JIG.

    Linear rails are BGXH 25FN, while ball screw are SCR 25x5 C7. Not sure about the C7 type precision here.

    Outer dimensions are 1000x800x700mm.

    5-axis for machining metals-preview-jpg



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    Default Re: 5-axis for machining metals

    Quote Originally Posted by UA_Iron View Post
    You bring up a good point about the mechanical system - a worm drive is superior for the application for the reasons you stated.

    I have to disagree with what you're saying about the stepper motors though. 400 steps/rev accuracy? No, the stepper motors are essentially servo motors with a 1000 line encoder - after quadrature that's 4000 counts/motor revolution - that's 0.09° resolution. Accuracy is a function of the drive system and tolerance on the encoder. They will have 12Nm holding torque, not 6Nm. Holding torque is always higher in a stepper motor than dynamic torque and typically what the motor is rated for.



    Hanermo, the motors linked provided the torque curves over the operating range. What you said may apply to the junk high inductance chinese stepper motors, but these will reach 1000RPM (at least the 8.0Nm one will).

    Schneider/IMS made a Nema42 sized stepper that will run up to 3000RPM
    http://motion.schneider-electric.com...s/MDM42_AC.pdf

    Some small stepper motors can hit 6000RPM.

    Your real torque depends on the torque curve, not a thumb calculation of the nameplate - that's only something you assume when you are dealing with steppers that have no listed specifications.
    I agree regarding the steppers, I run a 1200ozin nema34 closed loop stepper with AC Drive and quadrature encoder and it will spin 3500rpm verified on the digital drive tachometer. I was floored when I saw that thing spin up while testing it to see what kind of speed it could trun... Almost fell off the table when I was playing with the steps per settings and had it turned up and hit a jog key. The older steppers as you said without the encoders and feedback loop were always derated to cover for lost steps that the closed loop don't have to contend with.

    I also think a harmonic drive is by far the best way to go. With a servo that will easily spin 3000rpm they should have no problem hitting 60rpm which should be plenty fast for any type of machining you would do on a small machine.

    Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk



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    Default Re: 5-axis for machining metals

    Hello fellas,

    Here are some updates to the machine.

    First, and most important for this thread, is that I am staring with 3 axis and will be upgrading 4th axis via harmonic drive. Maybe admins would like to move this thread to the 3 or 4 axis machines area.

    Here are some new pictures and the little explanation where I am going now, design of the machine, and the future plans.

    My major concern was the rigidity of the machine, so I went berserk

    Motors are Leadshine ES-M23440 with 4Nm of torque, with ES-D808 drivers.

    5-axis for machining metals-img_20160428_153235-jpg

    The ball screw are TBI motion 2505 C5 quality.

    Linear guides are TBI 30 mm, with matching linear blocks. Oversized AF! When designing something on computer, you cant really scale the preview to the real scale. The blocs are 110x110x50 mm, and the

    5-axis for machining metals-img_20160517_160806-jpg

    That being said, I now know that this machine will be a beast.

    Profiles are heavy duty 90x90 and 90x190 for the base bridge (FIXED) and that also is heavy AF.

    Linear guides are heavy, proper heavy, around 25 kg, for all 3 axis.

    Machine should be able to run casting molds for plastic, and some other high speed machining.

    Fixed gantry will have 180x180 mm profile pillars, and I think it will be enough for the super precise and high speed tasks, with all sorts of materials.

    The "basement" of the machine is cross linked with 45x90 Heavy profiles, and this is where the coolant will flow, but the rigidity of the machine wont be put to question.

    5-axis for machining metals-img_20160517_164958-jpg

    5-axis for machining metals-img_20160517_160355-jpg

    5-axis for machining metals-img_20160517_164838-jpg

    5-axis for machining metals-img_20160517_165008-jpg

    Here is the render of the design, on which I have spend last 3 months. Machine has a few changes from this design, but I did not have the time to re-render it again. It will suffice.

    5-axis for machining metals-untitled-73-jpg

    My major concern is the Mach3, as it only allows 25Khz over serial port, and this motors can spin much higher, than this serial port will allow. What I was looking is the soe chinese breakout board/motion controler, but I am very unsure about this one.

    50kHz 6 Axis USB Mach3 Card Interface CNC Breakout Board Motor Driver Controller | eBay

    New 200kHz 3 Axis CNC USB Mach3 Card Controller Breakout Interface Board Driver | eBay

    Also, I am thinking about CSMIO/IP-M, which is a pretty good product, or ESS.

    If anyone has used, and in working order, maybe we can talk about purchase.

    More news to come, as I am slowly building this beauty up.

    Sorry for the low Q pictures.

    Cheers

    Last edited by lopata; 05-17-2016 at 06:52 PM.


  9. #29
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    Default Re: 5-axis for machining metals

    Really, really nice! I hope to see this in action soon!
    Which spindle do you plan to use? Where did you get those steppers, price?



  10. #30
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    Default Re: 5-axis for machining metals

    Hey Zeky,

    Spindle will be chinese 3 Kwh @18000 RPM.

    Motors are Leadshine 4Nm closed loop or easy servo, and I am still adjusting them.

    Few more pictures. Machine will be a blast. Over 200 kg in aluminium profiles and bolts.

    5-axis for machining metals-20160613_212214-jpg
    5-axis for machining metals-20160613_212204-jpg
    5-axis for machining metals-20160613_212253-jpg
    5-axis for machining metals-20160613_212405-jpg
    5-axis for machining metals-20160613_212344-jpg



  11. #31
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    Default Re: 5-axis for machining metals

    Interesting .. a good effort.
    Will be interesting to see how it works.



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    Default Re: 5-axis for machining metals

    Hey there fellas

    Some little update:
    5-axis for machining metals-20160730_194145-jpg
    5-axis for machining metals-2-jpg
    5-axis for machining metals-3-jpg

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 5-axis for machining metals-20160730_194211-jpg   5-axis for machining metals-20160730_194258-jpg   5-axis for machining metals-20160730_194242-jpg  


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    Default Re: 5-axis for machining metals

    Where do you get these alu plates localy?
    Excellent job, keep it comming!



  14. #34
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    Default Re: 5-axis for machining metals

    Hey bro,

    Plates came from Alcu d.o.o. from Slovenia, and they are pretty awesome company.

    Had some problems with X-axis base plate, so I had to do the rework on it.
    The holes were not concentric, so mounting the X plate was not possible. Had to go for some old school cnc machine to make it again.

    After that remedy, the X axis moves beautifully. Moving to Leadshine motors to configure, and waiting for few more plates to be finished.

    1st machine I made, was mostly improvised, and this one was designed to be like Lego kit.

    5-axis for machining metals-20160804_174806-jpg
    5-axis for machining metals-20160801_202212-jpg
    5-axis for machining metals-20160801_193604-jpg



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    Default Re: 5-axis for machining metals

    Thanks for the tip!

    What do you mean by "holes were not concentric"? Missaligned or the wider hole for screw head was not positioned ok?
    I'm in a process of building a similar machine myself, but I'm a complete noob

    Which type of aluminium alloy plate you used?



  16. #36
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    Default Re: 5-axis for machining metals

    There were some problems with holes on which the X axis would be mounted, so that one was fixed.

    Today got the X axis moving a little.

    125mm/sec on the video, but I have tested the 250 mm/sec without a sweat.
    The most surprising thing was the acceleration of this leadshine easy servo motors. Max acc that machine can withstand is 1500 mm/s/s. which is almost scary to watch.

    The best thing about this motors, is when the motors stall, there is a error signal, and there are absolutely no lost steps.

    Machine is scheduled to run on mid next week.





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    Default Re: 5-axis for machining metals

    Things are heating up.
    Just decided to mount roughly most of the parts for visual inspection.
    Looks impressive
    When playing with this mad acceleration, the whole table wants to move. I got the effective movement acc up to 2000 mm/s/s but that is just ludicrous.
    One person to thanks for this effort is a friend, also making magical cnc machines, turpija is the nickname. Pretty awesome machining.
    5-axis for machining metals-20160808_195812-jpg
    5-axis for machining metals-20160808_195822-jpg
    5-axis for machining metals-20160808_195822-jpg
    5-axis for machining metals-20160808_195834-jpg
    5-axis for machining metals-20160808_195843-jpg



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    Default





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    Default Re: 5-axis for machining metals

    That looks impressive fast clean cut with no coolant .



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    Default Re: 5-axis for machining metals

    Nice rigid machine you have there. Regarding controller, do you know PlanetCNC? They are also from Slovenia.
    Planet CNC - CNC USB Controllers



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