A Different Machine - Downdraft/water table - Page 3


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  1. #41
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    Default some problems solved

    Fixed 2 items from the not so good list.

    I bought a ShuttlePro V2 off Ebay and used the Mach3 plugin for it. It works great. It has 15 buttons that can be assigned to almost any function and 2 wheels for jogging. the inside wheel is automatic and whatever axis you selected, moves at a set speed until you hit the stop button (make sure you assign a stop button). The speed is a little slow but maybe it can be changed. The outside wheel is a variable speed one that you must hold. Works great for the money.

    The second problem solved is the torch lighting. It was moving up in the torch holder. Didn't move much but enough to keep it from lighting. A cable tie has solved the problem temporarily. Need to make a removable clamp. Been fooling around with the post processor in Sheetcam and I have it where the torch lights every time (at least for the last 20-30 tries). So much for the idea that you can't use a contact start torch. This one is making very nice cuts.

    Still working on the new air filter. Decided to build a box that will slide over the existing filter frame. It will have at least two 25 x 16 filters to start out with and room to add several more smaller ones if necessary. I made a mockup out of cardboard and duct tape and it seemed to work ok. I am keeping the original frame on because I can use a flexible duct to the outside when the weather is warm.

    I actually made some parts for the machine with the machine. I needed to build the belt guard so I drew it up in autocad, loaded it into Sheetcam, and had Mach3 cut it out. It was SOOOO EASY and all the parts fit together. Took about a minute to cut them out. The welding together took much longer.
    Some pics attached.

    Projects left - air filter, table clamps, and THC.

    Willy

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails A Different Machine - Downdraft/water table-belt-guard-inside-jpg   A Different Machine - Downdraft/water table-belt-guard-outside-jpg  


  2. #42
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    Default Exhaust Problem Solved

    Spent the last week working on exhaust filters. Finally got one that worked OK but it only lasted for about 30-40 minutes of cutting. It had 3 fairly large filters in a "z" configuration with the z lying on it's side. After a while, they became so clogged that they reduced air flow and the downdraft became less effective and the smoke detectors went off again. If I had to change the filters every 30 minutes, it would get very expensive to operate since the 3 filters cost $12.00. After seeing the crap that was in the filters, I will never stand beside a plain plasma table. It must be a combination of smoke and metal dust because a magnet would actually attract the clogged fiber filter. I can only imagine what happens to your lungs.

    I finally decided on a exhaust duct. I picked up a 12" flexible duct that I can put out the back door. Luckily, I have no neighbors out the back except a few mosquitoes and squirrels. I made my own collar which fits in the old filter holder. I need to get some strip caulking to seal it to the front of the machine. It's temporarily sealed with that old standby, duct tape.

    I've been reading several posts on the web about downdraft tables and am going to use some of the ideas I've seen. I cut out several different sizes of sheet metal to cover parts of the table not in use. This will increase the downdraft around the piece being cut. I've also noticed a very light coating of dust on the edges of the machine which I suspect are the sparks you see coming from the top of the plate. I'm going to try adding spark shields on the back and sides of the gantry. They'll move with the gantry and should reduce the emissions even more. The last thing is to increase the blower speed. I've cut it down to 960 CFM so I am going to reverse the pulleys. This should give me 1200-1300 CFM. This may require an additional opening in the spark shield but I'll wait and see.

    I've also been working on the Sheetcam Contact Start post. It's working very well. My torch lights each and every time.I also fixed the delay for piercing. Sheetcam was putting in seconds when MAch3 is looking for milliseconds. If anybody needs it, let me know.


    A word of caution to plasma table users. After seeing those filters, the airborne particles and dust are really bad, even if you can't see them. Wear a mask and ventilate as best you can.

    Pics attached.

    Willy

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails A Different Machine - Downdraft/water table-exhaust-duct-jpg   A Different Machine - Downdraft/water table-exhaust-duct-collar-jpg  


  3. #43
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    Hey Willy, found this on eBay, it is probably bigger than the table but looks like it would work. I have looked into the newer type with the donaldson round filters. They look like they would work as they have a bar that runs around the inside of the filter that "beats " the filter to drop the trapped dust etc. into a tray. Knowing that a portion is magnetic, we could use some sort of magnetic sheet that the dirty air passes over before it hits the filter, like an ionizer plate kinda thing.

    Build looks great!

    WSS

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails A Different Machine - Downdraft/water table-fume-extractor-jpg  


  4. #44
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    That's an interesting looking machine. It probably is bigger than my table.

    I found a filter that uses a waterfall to clean the airstream. Its a pretty good idea, kind of a moving water table. You could put a magnetic plate in the waterfall and catch the washed particles. I'm using a rubberized magnet to clean the water tray and it works super. Just drag over the bottom and it picks up all of the particles - might work in a filter.

    What I find amazing is not what the plasma generates but the quantity of crap, especially on thicker material. These things are really health hazards. All you have to do is look in the water tray and the filters

    Machine is working very well. Just trying to nail down feed speeds, cutting heights, air presure, and current settings. I would like to get this done before the THC gets here so I have a benchmark. I've got good settings for 18 , 16, 14 gauge and 1/4 inch. Good kerf, very little dross, and a little bevel on the 1/4 ". The bevel is very good on some of the sides and a little more on others. I suspect this has something to do with the direction of cut and the plasma swirl.

    As soon as I learn what I'm doing, I'll post a video.

    Willy



  5. #45
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    Default THC and minor problems

    THC arrived from CandCNC. Looks pretty good. Got the 540 interface mounted although it wouldn't fit in my enclosure the way it came. I had to bend the 12 pins 90 deg down. Got the machine working through that part of the system so that's a little progress. My cutter doesn't have a ARC ON interface so I have to use the Current Transformer on the AC input. This will require some changes to my power cable. I still have to figure out where to mount the other 2 boards.

    Did some cutting before I started the THC installation. Discovered a minor problem on the X axis cuts. I am getting a slight wobble in the cut every inch or so. It's very hard to see but it's there. I think the problem is the spacers on the drive pulleys. My drive pulleys are 1/2" bore but the motor shafts are 1/4". One of the spacer bores is about .010 out of concentricity and the other is .012. So when the motor runs there is slight wobble in the pulley. I'll bore out the new spacers to finish them. Checked the Y axis and it's dead on.

    Still have to install the limit switches and some painting and it will be done.

    Willy



  6. #46
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    Default Some Progress, some setbacks

    Got the wobble problem solved. Made new spacers for the x and y axis and they run smooth with no wobble. Cuts are nice and smooth.

    The THC installation is not going so good. Made box for the THC sensor and mounting plate for the LCTHC itself. Wired everything up and it didn't work. The torch wouldn't fire. I could see the voltage on the display but it wouldn't fire. I disconnected the tip volts sensor at the quick disconnect and it fires. Called Tom at Candcnc and we had many discussions over the next few days. He gives support like very few people in business today - always has time to talk and email.

    I decided to try and isolate the sensor with a relay until the torch fired. Hooked up a DC relay on one leg using output #2 and fired it off. Torch didn't work. I disconnected the whole thing from the sensor and it still didn't work. I then disconnected the quick disconnect and it worked fine. Something in the cord beyond the disconnect is keeping it from firing. I then connected the short section on the cutter to the sensor and it worked and the THC started moving the z axis. Some progress. Unfortunately, the isolation relay I was using using had shorted out and the G540 interface card went poof. It also damaged the LCTHC although it doesn't show any burn marks. Anyway, the cards are on their way back to Texas but at least I know it will work when they get back. Tom will be so happy when this installation works. I still cannot find anything wrong with the cord and cannot figure why it won't work.

    Most people have said that the cutter I am using (cut40D) would not work on a table. It won't work as good as a Hypertherm or TD but it was all I could afford. I had the choice to either build the table or buy a new cutter. I chose the former. The cutter itself is working fine. The table is working great. The cuts are very good compared to cutting by hand. Maybe I'll buy a Hypertherm or TD in the future but for now, it's working OK. I have to work around some issues but that's where the fun is.


    Willy



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    I still can't explain (from an engineering view) why a two wire cable 10 ft long to the THC Sensor causes the torch to misfire while a 3 ft one does not! It's just two wires and the difference in series resistance is in the milliohms range. Oh well, if it works it works. The bypass relay to try and remove the THC SENSOR inputs from loading the torch while it goes though the firing sequence was, in retrospect, a bad idea. When we discussed it I should have realized something else besides just the tip volts was involved and thought about what it would do to a relay rated at 270VAC! The contacts on most relays are not that far apart when they are open so that 40A arc found the path of least resistance and left a trail of misery! I'll know more when I get the units back. I doubt it did anything serious to the LCTHC since all the inputs and outputs are opto isolated. The THC SENSOR is virtually indestructible from anything short of lightening! As I understand it the LCTHC does not see the torch fire command (output1 on the G540) or if it does, is not turning on the torch drive out to the THC SENSOR card and it's torch relay. I put that red Torch On LED in at the last minute and now I am glad I did.

    At least the G540 itself was spared and probably the only causality was the G540 Interface card. I guess I need to put in a test procedure in the manual to be able to manually input the torch fire signal.

    TOM caudle
    www.CandCNC.com



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    The G540 seems to work in every respect. I've reconnected everything as it was before and it is working normally. I took the cord and plugs to a friend and we checked everything. There is no leakage, no shorts, and virtually zero resistance. I don't know why it causes the torch misfire but it does. I'm going to reconnect the cord without the quick disconnects and see what happens with that setup. There has got to be a reason fot it not working.

    Willy



  9. #49
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    Great build.. that looks like a sturdy setup that should do good work for a long time.

    I was reading about your dust and metal fragments trouble and after looking at your pictures I've got some questions/ideas/concerns;

    The water level seems to be a a long way below the work piece and the amount of air you are moving with the fan is huge.

    This is what I'm thinking:
    - Cover as much of the table as you can while cutting (a full 4x2 sheet for each cut would be best, but cost prohibiting) I think you mentioned cutting pieces to cover the other areas. What I've seen before is just using a single thin sheet the size of the table and putting your work on top of it.. it will cut as well but if you cut in the same area most of the time that shouldn't be a problem.
    - Move your water level up, hard to see where it is now, but it seems high. should make more dust and metal particles hit the water.
    - REDUCE your airflow. I think you may be moving so much air that you are catching the particles in the air flow before they hit the water. Reducing the air flow may improve your collection of particles in the water and improve your smoke removal.

    You could even consider moving your water level up to cover the bottom of your slats, that way your air movement is only side to side (between slats) and you'd have to move much less air to get good results.



  10. #50
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    Thanks for the comments.

    My water tray is only 3" deep and sits 4" below the slats. My idea is designing it was to leave room for the downdraft to pick up stuff that doesn't get caught by the the water. From the amount of sludge in the tray, not much is missing the water.

    When you see a regular table, you see smoke coming up off the table. I don't get any at all. The downdraft is strongest around the edges of the table and I think very little is escaping, especially when I put covers on the unused areas.

    My original plan was to have it exhaust into a filter but that has proved to be a much more difficult chore than I thought. See the previous posts for the details. One of the problems is the amount of stuff exhusted and the second problem is the type. I believe there is lot of ionized particles/gas from the plasma. Tough stuff to capture. I don't like exhausting outside but it's better than inside.

    All in all, the table has met most of my design goals. It has great accuracy, it's very clean, and it came in on budget (which made my wife very happy).

    I still have couple of minor things to fix but it's pretty much done. I am working on an effective filter for the exhaust. After looking at how much crap is collected in the water tray, I decided to try and build the water fall filter. The exhaust will go through a continuous stream of water (like water over a weir) with magnetic plates in the bottom of the pool to collect the residue. Still thinking about some design issues on that but I should get started on that pretty soon.

    Willy



  11. #51
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    Been busy so not a lot of time to work on machine. Did a few small cuts which came out pretty good. Noticed that the blower exhaust seemed a little weak. Checked the blower screen and it was coated with black dust. Easy to clean though, just pass a magnet over it. More metal dust that wasn't caught by the water tray.

    I've had this feeling that the downdraft was weaker than it should be even though it was working great. I suspected that it was caused by the by the blower screen opening in the blower shield- too small. So I pulled the water tray out this morning and added another screen - double the size of the 1st. Easy to cut out with the plasma cutter. The exhaust flow is double or triple what it was - it inflates the flexible duct now. The downdraft is much stronger than it was before. Have to wait until tomorrow for the gasket sealer to dry before I can fill the water tray and try some more cuts.

    Made some mounting brackets for the limit switches. Need to get them connected to finish this beast. THC from has been repaired and is on it's way back. Should be here by next weekend.

    Willy



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    Default A Video at last

    Finally got a chance to do a video. It's only of the test box I've been using to find out what settings are best for various materials , thicknesses, and current settings. The sheet on the machine is 16 GA and I am using 25 amps and 100 IPM.

    A question for the plasma gurus out there. At this setting, I get very little dross but it is extremelly hard to remove. If I lower the speed or current, I get more dross but it is easier to remove. I notice that Hypertherm and TD use much higher current settings and very high cut speeds. Although the machine can get much higher speeds, the small items that I'll be cutting will preclude ever getting to these feed speeds. What are the best settings ?

    Anyway, here is the link to the video.

    [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZAhDsmHBWA"]YouTube- MOV01607[/nomedia]


    Willy



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    Default Almost done!!!!

    Finally got all of the things I blew up back. The LCTHC came back from CandCNC and the 540 from Gecko. Got everything wired and it worked (now that the tip volt cord problem was solved). Still have some minor problems with the LCTHC XML but I have everything working with the standard THC XML.

    Got my limit switches hooked up but I only have one input left on the 540 so everything had to go into it. The LCTHC takes the other 3. I have a second parallel port on the PC so I ordered a C10 breakout board from CNC4PC and will use it for the limit and home switches.

    I also changed the post processor that I had modified for my contact start torch. I originally had it move the x axis to zero but I had to initially set the zero level. It worked fine until I added the THC. My torch is a contact start, drag tip and when it is in contact or very slightly above the plate, very little warping was taking place and the floating head would take up whatever warping took place. With the THC, the torch is cutting at a much higher level and more warping is happening. Sometimes when the torch moves to a new cut, the zero level is no longer in contact with the plate and the torch fails to light. So instead of setting a zero at the beginning of the job, I am using a G28.1 on the Z axis which refs the z axis before each cut and the torch will always be in contact with the plate before it is turned on.

    I also did two videos. The first is a general description of the machine and the second shows it cutting a small weathervane sail. Unfortunately, I had a small piece of sheet on the machine which required me to scale down the sign and one of the legs got burned off. Anybody want a 3 legged horse on a weathervane ?

    Here are the URLs for the videos.

    [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOsasPrxXtY"]YouTube - CNC Plasma Table-Downdraft and Water Tray-General Description[/nomedia]

    [nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2RXzzmuDGo"]YouTube - CNC Plasma Table-Downdraft and Water Tray- In Operation[/nomedia]

    Willy



  14. #54
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    Default It's done !!!!!!!!!!

    The C10 breakout board arrived. It gives me a load of inputs so all the limit switches have a seperate pin. The C10 was very easy to wire although it does require a 5V power supply. I used a old supply that had a USB cord on it - chopped end off and hooked up to board. It only requires a 400 ma supply so there should be no problem.

    I used the lower Z limit as the home switch for the z axis. This basically acts as the initial height sensor for my contact start torch and it works great. It senses movement in the floating head. When the z axis bottoms out on the material, the floating head moves up, trips the switch, and then backs off till the switch resets and my torch is at zero.

    My electronics box is getting quite crowded now. The C10 board is at the top front, the LCTHC is at the lower left, and the Gecko 540 is on the right, power supplys in the back and wiring all over.

    It's been a great project and thanks to all who offered advice.

    Pics attached.

    Willy



    Some pics attached

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails A Different Machine - Downdraft/water table-dsc01639-jpg   A Different Machine - Downdraft/water table-dsc01640-jpg   A Different Machine - Downdraft/water table-dsc01641-jpg  


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    Default Making money- Time for a new Plasma Cutter

    It's been several months since I finished the machine and it's still running great . It's put up for the winter now since we are in Florida till the spring.

    I was cutting a lot of parts for a friend's company (not free) but they were either 14 ga or 1/8" steel. My little chinese cutter worked fine for these parts and is still running great. Now the problem. He has a new part that is 1/2" mild steel and is fairly intricate with a lot of pierces on the inside of the part and he needs a lot of them. My little cutter won't handle this.

    I've decided to purchase a Hypertherm cutter but am not quite sure which one to get. I like the Pmax 45, mainly because of cost, but am not sure that it will handle the interior pierces on 1/2" steel. So my next choices are the PMAX 1000 or the PMAX 65. I know these will do the job so it becomes a matter of cost. I can save a bunch of money by getting the 1000 but the 65 has much newer technology. I think the accuracy of all of the machines is about equal.

    Any insights appreciated.

    Willy



  16. #56
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    If twere me I would consider either a 1250 or an 85 model if you have to cut lots of 1/2" and it needs to be good cuts. I can tell you the 45 won't hack it. The 65 will cut 1/2" but you have to be mindful of the duty cycle. If you have lots of paying work then time is your enemy. There is often a lot of difference as to what a unit will cut and what it will cut well with minimal flare and smooth sides.

    While the LCTHC you are using now will continue to function the MP3000-DTHC with it's expanded features and the digital current probe option brings a lot more flexibility and precision to the cut process. If you do elect to buy a 65 or 85 unit consider the Serial port option for it.

    TOM caudle
    www.CandCNC.com



  17. #57
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    Tom:

    Are you offering a trade-in on the LCTHC ??

    I've looked again at the specs for the 65 and 85 and you are probably right about the duty cycle. the cost difference is about $600 and I'll need to run a higher current supply line but I have several months to decide since we won't leave Florida until May. Maybe I'll find a deal before then.


    Willy



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    Default Upgrade cutter to Powermax 65

    So the snow is almost gone and the weather is getting warmer so it's time to start getting ready to head back north. The machine has only gotten minmal use since I left in the fall but all reports are that it was still running great. I've finally decided to upgrade the cutter to a Powermax 65 because I've got some jobs that will require a much more powerful machine.

    I've been scouring the web for various deals and had decided to get a unit with the CPC port and a machine torch. The only problem is that I needed a hand torch to cut large sheets into a size that would fit on my machine. This adds a considerable expense to the project. I found that Hypertherm is offering a deal with 2 hand torches, a H65 (75 deg) and a H65S (15 deg) for not much more than a unit with a single torch. The only drawback is that it is not available with a CPC port. A quick call to Hypertherm tech support verified that a CPC port upgrade kit is available for $100 and so I bought the PMAX65 with the 2 torches and upgrade kit for the same price as the one with the machine torch. I read that the machine torch nozzle fits the hand torches so it should give the same quality cut in a machine application.

    According to Hypertherm tech support, the CPC port installation is very easy so that leaves wiring the torch to work on the machine. I know that info is around the zone somewhere so I'll have to do a little digging. It would sure be nice if it could be wired through the CPC port (think I'll look at that when I'm installing the kit).

    Anybody got any info that would help, I'd appreciate it.

    Thanks,

    Willy



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    Quote Originally Posted by flyinwilly View Post
    So the snow is almost gone and the weather is getting warmer so it's time to start getting ready to head back north. The machine has only gotten minmal use since I left in the fall but all reports are that it was still running great. I've finally decided to upgrade the cutter to a Powermax 65 because I've got some jobs that will require a much more powerful machine.

    I've been scouring the web for various deals and had decided to get a unit with the CPC port and a machine torch. The only problem is that I needed a hand torch to cut large sheets into a size that would fit on my machine. This adds a considerable expense to the project. I found that Hypertherm is offering a deal with 2 hand torches, a H65 (75 deg) and a H65S (15 deg) for not much more than a unit with a single torch. The only drawback is that it is not available with a CPC port. A quick call to Hypertherm tech support verified that a CPC port upgrade kit is available for $100 and so I bought the PMAX65 with the 2 torches and upgrade kit for the same price as the one with the machine torch. I read that the machine torch nozzle fits the hand torches so it should give the same quality cut in a machine application.

    According to Hypertherm tech support, the CPC port installation is very easy so that leaves wiring the torch to work on the machine. I know that info is around the zone somewhere so I'll have to do a little digging. It would sure be nice if it could be wired through the CPC port (think I'll look at that when I'm installing the kit).

    Anybody got any info that would help, I'd appreciate it.

    Thanks,

    Willy
    First be aware you cannot fire the hand torch through the rear CPC connector so that set of signals will have no use. If you get the internal voltage divider with the CPC then you can use it AND the TRANSFER back to you CNC. This is a timely post because TODAY I zm getting the paperwork together to announce a new DTHC II system that has a direct single cable interface to any plasma that has a CPC with the correct pinout. I will have the new manual uploaded in a couple of hours on my website in the manuals section. I has lots of drawings and suggested hookups for Hypertherm and ThermalDynamics type machines with the CPC connector.

    TOM caudle
    www.CandCNC.com



  20. #60
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    The CPC upgrade kit includes the port, cabling, and the voltage divider board so a 65 can be fully upgraded for $100. The kit number is 228697 and the part number is 806980 if you want to see the FSB installation instructions. Looks pretty easy.

    I know that Hypertherm has built in a safety feature that wont allow a hand torch to be fired from the CPC port. After looking at the machine and torch schematics, it looks like they use different start leads coming out of the torch. The hand torch uses 2 & 3 (org & vio) while the mech torch uses 2 & 4( org & yel) . The trigger would also have to be removed (shorted). I'll trace it all out when my machine arrives. It would be great if I could permanently convert the second torch and still retain the safety features. Lot less money too.

    Willy



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A Different Machine - Downdraft/water table

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