Wiring Drivers & Spindle to Breakout Board for Mach3 conversion

[viroy]

ok I hooked it up this way:
AI to AVI
CM to DCM
FWD to OUT1

This does not work.
I first noticed the VFD cooling fan didnt turn on, this turns on any time the FWD is bridged to CM and is the sound I'm used to hearing any time I turned on the spindle power (back when it was being run by NCstudio instead of Mach3)
Maybe I need to bridge CM to DCM on the BOB? grounding problem?
So I bridged FWD to CM and tried again... the VFD fan turns on, but no spin.

I disconnected the VFD and did a little testing.... the OUT1 pin does work with M3 command.
I tested between DCM and AI, it stays at 0v no matter what, resistance between them never changes either.
I tested between DCM and 10v... this does give a varying resistance depending on what the spindle speed is set in Mach3
So between DCM and 10v on the BOB, I get a few hundred K resistance at near 0 RPM... the resistance drops to near 0 ohms when spindle speed is set to 24k in Mach3
As for voltage between DCM and 10v... it does change, but only stays between a few hundred millivolts.... so it never gets near 10v no matter what

So I tried this:
CM to DCM
AI from the VFD to 10v on the BOB
FWD bridged to CM

Still doesnt spin the VFD
I am confused as hell, why oh why doesnt this work?
Im wondering if there is a grounding prob? I have 2 PSU, a 40v and a 24v... 40v runs spindle and steppers, 24v runs BOB... Mach3 does control all 4 stepper axis motors properly

Also just to make sure, I switched the VFD mode F0.0 from 1 to 3 and made sure the spindle works with the front panel... it does work just fine so I changed F0.0 back to 1
I'm going to check

[dazp1976]

No, what you were explaining was only confusing everything even more, which was far from reality

Check this line that you just posted, and tell me what is wrong with it, ACM (board) > CM (vfd), is the 0-10v -ve (common GND)

0-10v-ve I assume.
Well it is a ground which is technically negative. And I guess it isn't quite common.
So it's just an 'ANALOG GND' then.

I'll get my terminology right one day man.

Bring me some more then. I'm in the mood to get ripped apart!.

Ps: I know it's 'Analog 0-10v' and 'Analog GND'. I've had coffee now

[dazp1976]

ok I hooked it up this way:
AI to AVI
CM to DCM
FWD to OUT1

All I've got right now is the 'switch circuit' between FWD and CM was not completed because you were only using FWD.
So it was not 'closed'.
Just get a cheap ssr relay that supports 24v. It's easier.

Get a voltmeter 'DC'.
Go to bob board.
Put RED in AVI.
Put BLACK in ACM.
Tell Mach to M3 and give it a speed.

You should see voltage with speed changes.
If not check your 24v power supply is connected.correct and on.
Check your 'spindle' pwm and spindle 'motor outputs' step settings are correct in Mach3.

Until you get this reading voltage/working correct take all vfd connections off.

[viroy]

The 24vdc supply is connected to the 24v and DCM pins... all steppers work correctly
Here are test results from the BOB with the VFD disconnected:
AVI to ACM
off = 0v @ 3.5k ohms
24k rpm = 0v @ 3.5k ohms
100 rpm = 0v @ 3.5k ohms

AVI to 10v
off = 0v @ 1M ohms
24k rpm = 0v @ 6k ohms
100 rpm = 0v @ 82.6k ohms

ACM to 10v
off = 0v @ 4.5k ohms
24k rpm = 0v @ 2.3k ohms
100 rpm = 0.001v @ 63k ohms

Since I'm getting a varying resistance on 10v... I tried:
ACM to CM
10v from VFD to AVI on BOB
10v from BOB to AI on VFD
FWD to ACM

This does turn on the spindle... sorta
its backwards and slow.... so 24k rpm setting stops the spindle and 100rpm setting spins it at maybe 200rpm... anything between goes slower than the 100rpm setting until it stops at about 20k rpm setting

so just like how it should work fine with a POT on the VFD between 10v and CM with the wiper on AI.... I'm assuming the BOB needs both the CM and the 10v from the VFD, then by applying resistance, send that changed output to the VFD AI pin.
I dont see how to do that on the board tho

[dazp1976]

ok here are test results from the BOB with the VFD disconnected:
AVI to ACM
off = 0v @ 3.5k ohms
24k rpm = 0v @ 3.5k ohms
100 rpm = 0v @ 3.5k ohms

AVI to 10v
off = 0v @ 1M ohms
24k rpm = 0v @ 6k ohms
100 rpm = 0v @ 82.6k ohms

ACM to 10v
off = 0v @ 4.5k ohms
24k rpm = 0v @ 2.3k ohms
100 rpm = 0.001v @ 63k ohms

Since I'm getting a varying resistance on 10v... I tried:
ACM to CM
10v from VFD to AVI on BOB
10v from BOB to AI on VFD
FWD to ACM

This does turn on the spindle... sorta
its backwards and slow.... so 24k rpm setting stops the spindle and 100rpm setting spins it at maybe 200rpm... anything between goes slower than the 100rpm setting until it stops at about 20k rpm setting

so just like how it should work fine with a POT on the VFD between 10v and CM with the wiper on AI.... I'm assuming the BOB needs both the CM and the 10v from the VFD, then by applying resistance, send that changed output to the VFD AI pin.
I dont see how to do that on the board tho

Why are you using bloody ohms?.
1. Set voltmeter to DC VOLTAGE.
2. Put red in AVI on bob.
3. Put black in ACM on bob.
4. Check VOLTAGE changes using S commands (with M3 on).

If it don't work try:
Mach3 > motor outputs > spindle > green tick on > step and dir pins set both to 1 > step and dir ports set both to 0.
Then on spindle page > checkbox tick on 'use spindle motor output' > checkbox tick on 'PWM'.
Set 'PWMBase frequency'= 1000, min = 0%.

Try M3 and speed commands again and check for VOLTAGE changes.

[viroy]

I put both volts and resistance in there, just to be thorough
so just as you asked, between AVI and ACM
AVI to ACM
off = 0v @ 3.5k ohms
24k rpm = 0v @ 3.5k ohms
100 rpm = 0v @ 3.5k ohms

So im getting 0v when its off, set to 24krpm and also 100rpm... and the resistance never changes

[viroy]

Heres some pics
I will try changing spindle output from 3-1-3-1 to 1-1-0-0

[dazp1976]

Heres some pics

What's with the red wire in the 10v pin on the vfd mate?.
Change spindle motor outputs to :
Step 1, dir 1, port 0 on both.
You are causing the board some confusion where it wants the pwm to go.

Get that 10v red wire off the vfd.
Do you even have a 24v power supply connected to the board or are you trying to fudge it?.

The only manual pdf for this I can find so far is the one on this page:

https://embeddedtronicsblog.wordpres...h3-controller/

Now. Bear with me and think about this:
To complete a circuit on the outputs of the bob board. You use DCM and OUT# to run your controlled device.
The DCM and ACM of the board are both gnd's but are isolated circuits from each other.
To get an output to work direct with the vfd you would need to use both the Bob's DCM and OUT#.
BUT: you only want to do this on a vfd with separate control and analog commons (CM /DCM/ ACM) etc.
If you use both ACM and the DCM common grounds to the common CM on your vfd you bypass the boards isolation.

THIS is why I say use a RELAY to control it.
OUT#/DCM would go to relay input.
FWD/CM would go to relay output.
Your board isolation between the control circuit and analog circuit remains intact.

[viroy]

the red wire on the VFD is just a wire... not connected to the BOB, but i wasnt sure if i needed it so i hooked one up... simple as that... so its just hanging there
The 24vdc power supply is connected to the BOB on pins 24v and DCM... it is the only thing running off the 24vdc power supply, I had to buy it just for the BOB and is the only thing its used for

I changed the spindle output from 3-1-3-1 to 1-1-0-0 as you asked, no change at all... no voltage whatsoever, its a flat 0.0vdc on any setting (M3 S24000, M3 S100 and so on)
but if the spindle is set to port 0 on the motor output tab, and the clockwise M3 is set to port 1 on the spindle tab... is this not wrong?

[dazp1976]

the red wire on the VFD is just a wire... not connected to the BOB, but i wasnt sure if i needed it so i hooked one up... simple as that... so its just hanging there
The 24vde2c power supply is connected to the BOB on pins 24v and DCM... it is the only thing running off the 24vdc power supply, I had to buy it just for the BOB and is the only thing its used for

I changed the spindle output from 3-1-3-1 to 1-1-0-0 as you asked, no change at all... no voltage whatsoever, its a flat 0.0vdc on any setting (M3 S24000, M3 S100 and so on)
but if the spindle is set to port 0 on the motor output tab, and the clockwise M3 is set to port 1 on the spindle tab... is this not wrong?

You are putting M3 before S command in midi yes?
Like M3S24000. I've forgot the M3 myself before.
It won't send voltage without a M3/M4.
Stupid question I know.
Does not matter if there is no output connected to M3/M4, as long as there is one assigned in the software.

[viroy]

in MDI i am typing "M3 S24000" or whatever speed... it does show spindle turns on (in mach3) and I can adjust the speed using the slider on the 'program run' tab, or in MDI by typing a different speed such as "S100"
then I use M5 to shutoff spindle

I have verified good 24vdc output at the PSU terminals, also good at the DCM & 24v pins on the BOB.... I also get good 24vdc output between OUT1 and DCM when spindle is triggered in Mach3
I'm completely out of ideas

[dazp1976]

in MDI i am typing "M3 S24000"
I'm completely out of ideas

Typing in midi as one complete line without a space yes?

And there was no problems installing the plugin CD yes?.

Until the analog is giving voltage, you're a bit stuck.

[viroy]

no i put a space before the S
so M3 S24000.... should I be doing M3S24000 instead?
Mach3 does show the spindle active at whatever speed i set when I use the space.... i.e. M3 S24000 will start the spindle icon blinking yellow and the speed at 24000

Also, I notice the grounds between ACM and DCM are isolated.... should i bridge these grounds?

[viroy]

oh wow heres something new... the BOB card did not come with a manual, barely any info at all really.
The included PDF on the BOB CD is only for initial setup... wiring diagram, the license file, rnrmotion.dll file, mach3 config file.... all of which were installed/imported into mach3.
but no user manual

So I'm looking through the manual you linked above and found something very interesting:

10 Volt spindle output.
There is a seperate available 10 volt PWM that can be used to control spindle speed. The voltage output pins are between AVI and ACM ground screw terminals. For this to work, a 10 volt power supply must be connected to the 10V and GND terminals. This has better linearity than using one of the four output pins as PWM. The output signal is driven by a transistor which gives a cleaner looking square wave. If your spindle requires a 5 volt PWM, you can apply 5 volts to the 10V terminal instead. Many diode laser controllers are 5 volt PWM.

So... it looks like I need to try this wiring:
10v on VFD to 10v on BOB
CM on VFD to both ACM and GND on the BOB
AI on VFD to AVI on BOB

Since it says a 10v power supply is needed, and the VFD outputs 10v.... I believe the 10v and CM pins will work for this?
what do you guys think?

[dazp1976]

no i put a space before the S
so M3 S24000.... should I be doing M3S24000 instead?
Mach3 does show the spindle active at whatever speed i set when I use the space.... i.e. M3 S24000 will start the spindle icon blinking yellow and the speed at 24000

Also, I notice the grounds between ACM and DCM are isolated.... should i bridge these grounds?

They should remain isolated. I mentioned this in an earlier post. This is why for this bob. I'd use a relay for the switch circuit on a vfd that has a shared common.

[viroy]

ok so I hooked it up the exact way I illustrated and got some results, but not sufficient.
I dont get any spin until setting it to 15k rpm in Mach3.... VFD panel display shows 350rpm at a Mach3 setting of 15krpm
At 24k rpm setting in mach3, I get 500rpm on the VFD display panel.
I do agree the VFD panel display matches what the spindle is actually doing.

I verified F1.0 and F1.1 on the VFD are set between 0 and 10

[dazp1976]

oh wow heres something new... the BOB card did not come with a manual, barely any info at all really.
The included PDF on the BOB CD is only for initial setup... wiring diagram, the license file, rnrmotion.dll file, mach3 config file.... all of which were installed/imported into mach3.
but no user manual
So I'm looking through the manual you linked above and found something very interesting:
So... it looks like I need to try this wiring:
10v on VFD to 10v on BOB
CM on VFD to both ACM and GND on the BOB
AI on VFD to AVI on BOB
Since it says a 10v power supply is needed, and the VFD outputs 10v.... I believe the 10v and CM pins will work for this?
what do you guys think?

It's got me thinking too.
Is the entire 24v circuit completely isolated and don't power the analog on the later boards?.
I'm thinking of a safe way of testing.

I think I would use your existing 5v/GND onto that 10v section (NOT connecting vfd yet) and test ACM/DCM volts again. see if you get 0v at 0rpm, 2.5v at 6000rpm, and 5v at 12000rpm.

I don't want it smoking and is at your own risk.

[viroy]

I dont have a 5v power supply, that actually does get supplied from the BOB.
I have 4 stepper motors connected to all four pulse/dir outputs and the 5v pin on the BOB... all 4 motors accurately move the correct distance, I've even got the speed/accel tuned.

so to be clear... the 5v out on the BOB supplies 5vdc out.... the 10v pin on the BOB supplies nothing, I always get 0v no matter what
the 24vdc power supply is ONLY connected to the 24v and DCM pins on the BOB

[dazp1976]

Stupid question. Have you set your pulley in Mach?.

[viroy]

Pulley number 1
Min speed = 0
Max speed = 24000
Ratio = 1