Break out board damage! Please Help

[jimskeet]

Hi guys. I had this happen today.
I have built a cnc machine that uses mach3 and my break out board is HY JKM5.
While the machine was running my brother was using a tig welding unit and he was welding some pieces. The tig welding unit was connected to a different power outlet.

At one point he touched the metal piece with the tip of the torch and the machine suddenly stoped with an estop message.
After that. I shut the control down, restarted the PC and when tried to power on the control I have this behavior.
The moment the break out board gets powered on, it turns on the spindle relay. When I try to jog the machine, the dro indicators on mach3 move as expected but the machine doesn't move.
The input signals are working fine cause when I touch the home limit switches or the tool touch plate, signals are recorded as expected on mach3 diagnostics page.
Also another thing I noticed is this. I use leadshine closed loop steppers. Before when I powered on the control, the axis motors would get powered and locked to hold the position of the axis. I couldn't rotate the axis by hand. Now after the incident, when I power on the control, stepper motors dnt react at all and I can rotate them freely. And when I power it down they jerk a tiny bit.

Also forgot to mention that when I power on the control, everything seems to work fine inside. Drives show the normal operation green light and no error flashing red light, power supplies measure the correct voltages and even the red light of the break out board is on.

So to summarize the symptoms are, spindle relay goes on when I power on the control (while spindle signal is off on mach3). No axis movement possible, and stepper motors are not holding position when powered on.

I believe that the break out board is damaged and went ahead and ordered a new one to be on its way. Is there anything else that can create this issue other than the break out board??

Also why did this happen with the tig weld and how can I prevent it in the future, other than avoiding using the tig weld while the machine is on?

Any help more than welcome!

[mactec54]

Hi guys. I had this happen today.
I have built a cnc machine that uses mach3 and my break out board is HY JKM5.
While the machine was running my brother was using a tig welding unit and he was welding some pieces. The tig welding unit was connected to a different power outlet.

At one point he touched the metal piece with the tip of the torch and the machine suddenly stoped with an estop message.
After that. I shut the control down, restarted the PC and when tried to power on the control I have this behavior.
The moment the break out board gets powered on, it turns on the spindle relay. When I try to jog the machine, the dro indicators on mach3 move as expected but the machine doesn't move.
The input signals are working fine cause when I touch the home limit switches or the tool touch plate, signals are recorded as expected on mach3 diagnostics page.
Also another thing I noticed is this. I use leadshine closed loop steppers. Before when I powered on the control, the axis motors would get powered and locked to hold the position of the axis. I couldn't rotate the axis by hand. Now after the incident, when I power on the control, stepper motors dnt react at all and I can rotate them freely. And when I power it down they jerk a tiny bit.

Also forgot to mention that when I power on the control, everything seems to work fine inside. Drives show the normal operation green light and no error flashing red light, power supplies measure the correct voltages and even the red light of the break out board is on.

So to summarize the symptoms are, spindle relay goes on when I power on the control (while spindle signal is off on mach3). No axis movement possible, and stepper motors are not holding position when powered on.

I believe that the break out board is damaged and went ahead and ordered a new one to be on its way. Is there anything else that can create this issue other than the break out board??

Also why did this happen with the tig weld and how can I prevent it in the future, other than avoiding using the tig weld while the machine is on?

Any help more than welcome!

Tig welders are nasty and can damage electronics in close proximity, the optos could be damaged on the Breakout board, but could also be other electronics as well that have failed, check your machine Grounding is correctly wired

Have you checked the Ports and Pins are still as they where when you first setup the machine it may not of damaged anything just messed with the software, so check Ports and Pin configuration it does sound like they are not configured correctly

[jimskeet]

Hi.
Could the settings of the mach3 software change like that while it was running because of the tig weld? Only the output signal pins? The input signals were all ok, since I tested them after the incident. The machine is grounded through the spindle ground which is secured correctly.

[jimskeet]

Also the spindle relay goes on when I power the control on even if I have the parallel port cable disconnected from the mach3 computer.

[mactec54]

Also the spindle relay goes on when I power the control on even if I have the parallel port cable disconnected from the mach3 computer.

The relay is closed ( may be damaged also ) so the VFD Drive will turn on disconnect the relay from FWD and DCM and the VFD won't start

[mactec54]

Hi.
Could the settings of the mach3 software change like that while it was running because of the tig weld? Only the output signal pins? The input signals were all ok, since I tested them after the incident. The machine is grounded through the spindle ground which is secured correctly.

Anything is possible unless you check all these setting you won't know for sure what has happened, need to see a photo of how you have wired everything

[jimskeet]

The relay is not stuck closed. I hear it click on when I power on the control and I hear it click off when I power down the machine. I will check the settings tomorrow to make sure they are ok.
I looked the jkm5 board here in europe so I can get it delivered faster. I found this one
https://www.amazon.de/-/en/gp/produc...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
It doesn't have the jkm5 code printed on the back of the board in the photos like the one I have in my control. But it is exactly the same from what I see. I have already ordered it so it comes as soon as possible. It is the correct one, right?

[jimskeet]

Here is a photo of my control. I don't know if you can understand the connections cause it is a little messy

[jimskeet]

[mactec54]

The relay is not stuck closed. I hear it click on when I power on the control and I hear it click off when I power down the machine. I will check the settings tomorrow to make sure they are ok.
I looked the jkm5 board here in europe so I can get it delivered faster. I found this one
https://www.amazon.de/-/en/gp/produc...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
It doesn't have the jkm5 code printed on the back of the board in the photos like the one I have in my control. But it is exactly the same from what I see. I have already ordered it so it comes as soon as possible. It is the correct one, right?

All of those boards are close to the same some are a little better quality than others

If the relay is turning on then it is getting power to turn it on which would tell me that the software configuration is incorrect or your wiring is incorrect, because it was running then the wiring should be ok, that just leaves the configuration which is easy to check to see if that has not changed, if that is all correct then the Breakout board would be the only other thing left

Usually when the spindle relay turns on when you power it up there is a configuration problem

Disconnect the relay to the VFD and power up, run a program and check the output from the Breakout Board on the X Y axis if nothing then check the Ports & Pins Configuration

How is your computer connected to the Breakout Board there is the ribbon cable that connects to what ???

[jimskeet]

All of those boards are close to the same some are a little better quality than others

If the relay is turning on then it is getting power to turn it on which would tell me that the software configuration is incorrect or your wiring is incorrect, because it was running then the wiring should be ok, that just leaves the configuration which is easy to check to see if that has not changed, if that is all correct then the Breakout board would be the only other thing left

Usually when the spindle relay turns on when you power it up there is a configuration problem

Disconnect the relay to the VFD and power up, run a program and check the output from the Breakout Board on the X Y axis if nothing then check the Ports & Pins Configuration

How is your computer connected to the Breakout Board there is the ribbon cable that connects to what ???

Good morning and thanks for the help!
The computer is connected to the breakout board via the parallel port on the computers motherboard. I will check the configuration today afternoon that I will be at the machine. I have tried to disconnect the relay from the vfd and even tried to disconnect the parallel cable from the break out board completely and power it on so it doesn't take any signal from mach3 and it still turned on the spindle relay.

Does the break out board store default state from the last signal? Wheat I mean is, if for some reason the configuration changed from normal open to normal closed on the relay from mach3, does the break out board store this configuration and set it to normal closed without even getting a signal, every time it turns on?

I will check though the configuration as you suggested when I go to the machine, to be sure.

[jimskeet]

I did check the configuration in mach3 and it is fine. All ports and pins are setup correctly. Also forgot to mention that the spindle relay stays on after powering the control on, even if i click to start or stop the spindle on mach3 software. It clicks off only when I power the control down.

[mactec54]

I did check the configuration in mach3 and it is fine. All ports and pins are setup correctly. Also forgot to mention that the spindle relay stays on after powering the control on, even if i click to start or stop the spindle on mach3 software. It clicks off only when I power the control down.

The Breakout Board you have has no storage of anything it is just a connection point to point taking a signal from Mach3 to what ever is connected to that terminal, think of it as plumbing

So Mach3 is not in control of the relay which can only be connection between the Breakout Board and the computer or it is not configured correct

So from Mach3 you can check if it has an output at the computer, then the cables which I don't like what you have used the ribbon cable, should not be used in this position it should be a shielded PP cable

You said the VFD Drive still power up with the relay disconnected from the drive, if this is the case then your VFD Drive is configured incorrect or some wiring has been mixed up you never showed a photo of the VFD Drive wiring needs to be a close photo of the wire connections to the VFD Drive Terminals

[jimskeet]

No. There is no issue with the vfd. The spindle relay on the bob clicks on when I power on the control, and when I power it off, I hear it click off after a couple of seconds. This happens even if I completely disconnect the parallel port ribon cable from the board.

[mactec54]

No. There is no issue with the vfd. The spindle relay on the bob clicks on when I power on the control, and when I power it off, I hear it click off after a couple of seconds. This happens even if I completely disconnect the parallel port ribon cable from the board.

There could be a problem with the VFD, as to how you have it wired that is why I need to see a photo of the VFD connections

As I said before you either have something wired incorrect or a software configuration incorrect

If the Relay turns on without the computer connected then you have something wired incorrect either from the VFD or how the power is connected to the Breakout Board for the Relay activation

[jimskeet]

I even disconnected the vfd from the relay connection. It stilled clicked on when I powered on the control. How would something be incorrectly wired when it was working correctly right before the incident with the tig welder? Also as I said when I powered the control on, the axis motors made a small click sound and was energized and were holding position and couldn't rotate them by hand before the incident. After the incident, when I power on the control the axis motors do nothing and I can rotate them by hand freely. Their drives and power supplies all work fine. Green lights on the drives without any fault signal. And power supplies measure the correct 70v at their outputs.

Also I mentioned earlier that all the input signals on the breakout board work normally and register normally on mach3. When I touch the touch plate its led turns on in mach3. Also when I touch the limit switches their leds also turn on in the diagnostics page. And when I hit estop switch which is wired as an input on the board it also turns mach3 into e stop state. It seems to me that only the output signals are affected. Can it be that the output circuit maybe got shorted somehow on the board and that is why the relay also clicks on when the board gets power?

[mactec54]

I even disconnected the vfd from the relay connection. It stilled clicked on when I powered on the control. How would something be incorrectly wired when it was working correctly right before the incident with the tig welder? Also as I said when I powered the control on, the axis motors made a small click sound and was energized and were holding position and couldn't rotate them by hand before the incident. After the incident, when I power on the control the axis motors do nothing and I can rotate them by hand freely. Their drives and power supplies all work fine. Green lights on the drives without any fault signal. And power supplies measure the correct 70v at their outputs.

So by disconnecting the VFD Drive that ruled that out, where all the connections disconnected from the VFD or just the Rely you would need to disconnect all the connections from the VFD Drive without a photo I can't tell you if you have a connection problem

So the Relay still turned on it is still the same out come it's getting a signal to turn on, so it is either a wiring problem or a configuration problem you need to track the Relay to see where the power / signal is coming from

Seems like you have more than one problem do you have any fuses in the drive system anywhere, are you using a drive enable connection if you are this is not turning the drives on, this all could be related to the Breakout Board may have failed some how

[jimskeet]

The vfd has no problem at all. If I have the vfd on and connected to the break out board relay, it behaves like this. When the control is powered down, the relay is off and the spindle is not running. When I turn power on the control, the relay clicks on and the spindle runs. So the relay somehow takes a signal to click on when power is running through the board. This happens even with the parallel port cable disconnected from the board as I said which rules out any signal from PC turning the relay on. Also each drive is connected on the break out board with 4 cables, enable, step, dir, ground. So I guess every drive has an enable signal which should have come from the break out board when it powers on, right? As I said it seems like every output signal from the break out board is acting strange while every input signal works normally.

[mactec54]

The vfd has no problem at all. If I have the vfd on and connected to the break out board relay, it behaves like this. When the control is powered down, the relay is off and the spindle is not running. When I turn power on the control, the relay clicks on and the spindle runs. So the relay somehow takes a signal to click on when power is running through the board. This happens even with the parallel port cable disconnected from the board as I said which rules out any signal from PC turning the relay on. Also each drive is connected on the break out board with 4 cables, enable, step, dir, ground. So I guess every drive has an enable signal which should have come from the break out board when it powers on, right? As I said it seems like every output signal from the break out board is acting strange while every input signal works normally.

Still need a photo of the VFD Connections if you are using the VFD Voltage than that could be turning the Relay on this is why I asked for the VFD Drive connection photo even though it worked before it still could of been wired to the board incorrect

Yes I agree it is pointing to the Board being the problem, with no shielding used or twisted pair wiring you can expect things like this to go wrong if there are any nasty EMI noise around

So how are the drives enabled through the Breakout Board check that configuration in the software and see if you can get that to turn on, you should be able to measure the voltage at the output of the Board when you power on, some of these drives you can disable the enable at the drive and then they will power up the motor, so you can by pass the enable check your drive spec's to see if you can

These Breakout Boards are so cheap you can have a spare I have some of the same boards that I just experiment with testing different software

[jimskeet]

The vfd is connected to the board only via the relay to control the start and stop of the spindle. I control rpm via the vfd itself. Also relay clicks on with the vfd connection to relay disconnected too. I cannot send photos cause I am not at the machine. But it is wired correctly. Indeed I have ordered two boards at the moment so I have a backup too.
What pins should I measure voltage on the board? in mach3 all enable signals are set correctly to output pin 1. I should measure voltage between pin 1 and ground on the board and it should show 5v if it works correctly? else something is wrong with the board as everything is showing?