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    Default Wiring diagram advice

    Guys i need some help to ensure that i wont do anything stupid.

    Though a problem i had ( i couldn't turn my spindle on-off) i decided to rebuild the whole enclosure with some updates . The problem stands on the relays. I have two ssr witch have been used to switch on and off a makita router and dust vacuum , but for some reason they cant send a on and off to the vfd. So i ll use an automotive relay for shorting the FOR - DCM to vfd. The thing is that both of the ssr and the relay are rated to < 36v which is my main psu .

    So i thought to use a second psu to power the ssr and the relay. This psu would be the one that will power on the microatx mobo . If i ll do so (use two psu) do i have to connect the two negatives also?

    i ve made a sketch so please take a look and if you see something that is not right please advice.


    Wiring diagram advice-cnc-wiring-jpg

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    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Wiring diagram advice-cnc-wiring-jpg  


  2. #2
    Member john-100's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wiring diagram advice

    your diagram looks correct
    but I would double check the relay coil is 12 ohms or more

    can you switch the relay on & off ?

    Wiring diagram advice-cnc-wiring-jpg

    you may have to set up the vfd digital input X1 to switch on the drive when X1 is connected to the digital common

    G540 to VFD connections

    Wiring diagram advice-g540-vfd-wiring-jpg

    John



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    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wiring diagram advice

    For most VFD's when using a G540 you can interface direct to the VFD PLC input, no relay needed for the forward ON command.
    see https://www.cnczone.com/forums/spind...equipment.html
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.


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    Default Re: Wiring diagram advice

    @ john 100

    for some reason i couldn't get the ssr to work on dc . so while it was getting a signal ( led on on ssr) the 3 -4 pins would sort. So i tested an automotive relay and yeap the spnidle work right away. my test was with 24v psu but know i am afraid to send to this bosch relay 36v and that was the reason for the second psu. so 24v power it up easily ( you can hear the click) i like to believe that 12 would also do the job.

    @al the man. so you suggest i can run an output from gecko straight to the FOR of the vfd without the relay? at this time the relay gets a command and shorting DCM and FOR.

    Sorry guys for being slow on this but i am not into electronics, although i like electronics a lot.

    thanks for helping me out guys.



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    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wiring diagram advice

    What is the make/model of your VFD?
    Most have the ability to accept a sinking output device, which what the G540 output does it switches to common, so you have to couple the GND or common of the G540 with the VFD Input common.
    The diagram in the link I posted just needs 2 connections between VFD and G540.
    Al.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Wiring diagram advice-sinksource-pdf  
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.


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    Member john-100's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wiring diagram advice

    there are two versions of solid state relays made

    SSR's designed to switch AC supplies are not able to control DC supplies

    1) an AC SSR usually has a triac (or 2 back to back thyristors) as the switching device across the output terminals
    controlled by an opto-isolated zero crossing detector
    so it switches on when the AC voltage has dropped to zero to minimise the switch on current

    if you manage to trigger the SSR to switch on when connected to a DC supply it will not switch off until remove the supply !

    2) DC SSR's use a bipolar transistor or FET that is controlled by an opto isolator
    an AC voltage is likely to destroy the device



    a quick look at 12V automotive relays indicates the coil resistance will be around 100 ohms (check the resistance of your relay )

    to connect a 12V relay to a 36V supply you will need to add a resistance of about 400 ohms in series with the 200 ohm coil so you have 24V dropped across the resistor

    with a 200 ohm coil , if its not easy to buy a 400 ohm 3 W resistor locally
    a 390 or 470 ohm 3 W resistor should be OK

    John

    PS
    if the digital input X1 is the cathode of an opto-isolator that is switched on when its connected
    to the common terminal ( which is the negative supply to the circuit )

    you can connect the G540 negative to the VFD digital comon
    and the G540 output to the VFD terminal X1

    Last edited by john-100; 05-21-2018 at 11:50 AM. Reason: add ref to dierct connection of G540 & VFD input


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    Default Re: Wiring diagram advice

    it is Huanyang HY01D523B.

    Sorry al the man for not getting this . believe me i am trying .

    i ve read the post but it was more confusing to me ....!

    connection1 ---> pin 12 from g540 goes to DCM to vfd and then it is another connection . Would be possible to have a speed control the way you are saying?

    which is the other connection that i have to make?


    edit: ps i think i got it . connecting the 12pin to DCM and the output of the gecko to one of the rev / for / sph / spl / spm . in my case FOR .

    For having a speed control i ll use pin 9-8-7 from g540 as i used too ?

    In this case i ll leave the relay unused.

    I ll also measure the coil of the relay .

    Last edited by Happy Feet; 05-21-2018 at 01:10 PM.


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    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wiring diagram advice

    About the only way for total control is to use the RS485 link (Modbus) and one of the Mach plug-ins.
    Mach3 plugin for Huanyang VFD | Le royaume d'éole
    This send a specific frequency over for precise rpm control. and any other control feature.
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.


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    Default Re: Wiring diagram advice

    Thanks guys for ur replies .


    i measured the coil and yes it was 83ohm. but i ll leave them out for now as i can send a signal without them . i will use the ac ssr later just for the dust vacuum and the water pump but it is already rated at 32 volt so i dont think it will be a problem if i send a little more (36v))
    The thing with the resistors is doable at the ssr too ?

    Al i saw this site a week ago that i was looking around the reason i couldn't get my spindle run. I already downloaded but now that you are saying it is the only way then i ll order the adaptor too.

    Thanks guys for helping me out



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    Member john-100's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wiring diagram advice

    you can add a resistor to reduce the control voltage from 36v to 32V or less

    if for instance you have a clone SSR-25 like this -

    Wiring diagram advice-inside-ebay-ssr25-jpg

    then a 150 ohm resistor should work

    ( if my calculations are correct with a 32V input the input current will be about 36mA
    so the volt drop across a 150 ohm resistor will be about 5.4V )

    john



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    Default Re: Wiring diagram advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
    Al i saw this site a week ago that i was looking around the reason i couldn't get my spindle run. I already downloaded but now that you are saying it is the only way then i ll order the adaptor too.

    Thanks guys for helping me out
    If referring to the modbus adaptor, I used the RS232 to RS485 off ebay as I have a COM port available, the USB to RS485 should also work.
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.


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    Default Re: Wiring diagram advice

    i should ask before . anyway i also have a free com port so is this the right one .



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    Default Re: Wiring diagram advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
    i should ask before . anyway i also have a free com port so is this the right one .
    I know the com port works!
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.


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    Default Re: Wiring diagram advice

    --> john i ve found a 200 ohms resistor and i think it is 3watt. would it be ok to put this ? that's the ssr i think i have ( mine is one piece so i cant look inside)

    -->Al what more can this rs485(modbus) can do except the rpm accuracy.

    Something more . On my old work the machining center ( wood ) would give you a feedback of the force on the spindle during cut ( that spindle was 11.5kw ) . are there any spindles with vfds that can give such of feedback ? what are the price range for them ?

    Also can you program moves like stepper's on a spindle ? For example to say to mach that it would do 10 turns with a specific speed?

    Or can you tell it when it will accept more force than it should to back up or stop or pause ?



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    Member john-100's Avatar
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    Default Re: Wiring diagram advice

    what's the part number of the SSR you have ?

    if you have a SSR that takes about 36mA with a 32V DC input
    like the SSR25 DA as in the you tube video
    the 200 ohm resistor will work

    with the 200 ohm resistor the SSR 25 DA input current would be about 28mA
    so about 5.6V would be dropped across the resistor

    if you have another type of SSR
    provided it takes at least 20mA with a 32V input
    the 200 ohm resistor will be OK

    John

    Last edited by john-100; 05-25-2018 at 07:44 AM. Reason: correct SSR input current with 200 ohm resistor


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    Default Re: Wiring diagram advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
    --> john
    -->Al what more can this rs485(modbus) can do except the rpm accuracy.

    Something more . On my old work the machining center ( wood ) would give you a feedback of the force on the spindle during cut ( that spindle was 11.5kw ) . are there any spindles with vfds that can give such of feedback ? what are the price range for them ?
    Also can you program moves like stepper's on a spindle ? For example to say to mach that it would do 10 turns with a specific speed?
    Or can you tell it when it will accept more force than it should to back up or stop or pause ?
    With the plug-in as it is you are limited to what is Mach allows it to do, so not all parameters in the VFD are available without some customized plug in.
    Also any plug in will only operate on what features the actual VFD has, e.g. for say spindle orientation the feature would need to be a part of the VFD design in order to access it.
    You can read any of the values you would normally access via the keypad display etc.
    So in a way it is Mach that governs the present features, such as frequency (rpm) Sxxx, G3, G4, G5 commands etc, confirmation readout of rpm etc.
    Al. ,

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.


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    Default Re: Wiring diagram advice

    it is a Fotek SSR-40DA

    Quote Originally Posted by john-100 View Post
    what's the part number of the SSR you have ?John
    the resistor would go in series on the positive isn't that right ?

    the dust vacuum is a 1500w main voltage . and the water pump is small enough ( main voltage too) . can i wire them in the same ssr or is it too risky ? i know it is rated 40amps but i am not sure how true that is .



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    Default Re: Wiring diagram advice

    the resistor can be connected to either of the SSR input terminals
    all that matters is its in series

    the answer to your second question
    It all depends on the total inrush current for your dust vacuum extraction motor and pump
    and whether or not you have a real FOTEK SSR 40 from the likes of WWW. Mouser.com
    or a clone from ebay that has an under size triac inside

    the example in the you tube video was supposed to be a SSR 25 but only had a 12A triac inside !!!

    John



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    Default Re: Wiring diagram advice

    good day folks.

    Yesterday morning i got a very unpleasent suprice. i switched on the cnc got away for 2 minutes and when i got back there was that smell and of course some smoke...!

    i dont know the cause of this . the only thing i notice was the fan wasn't spin and it was hot and melted...! i opened the vfd and took this picture.



    the spindle is worked as it should some minutes after the smoke here is a



    . i have noticed i had my minimum frequency to 0 instead of 120 and and the night before that the spindle had a drop on rpms every few seconds and the steppers were acting strange too ( talked to me @ openbuild about a pulse train jitter).

    The bad thing is that i also didn't get my cable to the ground from spindle connected and i dont know what else i ve done wrong.

    Is this thing repairable on topic market guys or do i have to go for a new one. i have runned the vfd with the spindle for a while with two 12v fans in series and it seems it working but i think it is a matter of time.

    if you have any idea what could be the cause please let me know.



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    Default Re: Wiring diagram advice

    If you ran a 24000rpm spindle lower than 6Krpm, then it is most likely cooked, the inductive reactance of these motors is very low once you go below this rpm, and the current goes up proportionately.
    The lack of ground connection is not good, but probably not the root cause of the burn out.
    Al..

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
    Albert E.


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