Hacking A Printer To Directly Print PCB's

[C88mod]

I am having problems with the ink not staying on the board.
I heat the durabrite ink on the blank board until it turns purple,
then give a hot bath in etchant, but after 15 minutes or so
and see the ink traces lifting off, what gives?

So far have tryed ammonium persulfate, hci+peroxide,
and now settled on just using sodium persulfate. (supposed to be ink safe)

[epineh]

I was thinking of putting the covers back on for the dust side of things, either that or enclosing it somehow.

Can't help you on the ink side of things yet, haven't got that far, have you tried the MISPRO ink ? I think they do some serious cleaning on the boards before printing to help it stick, I will do some more research on that when I am not doing anything...lol

Russell.

[C88mod]

I was thinking of putting the covers back on for the dust side of things, either that or enclosing it somehow.

Can't help you on the ink side of things yet, haven't got that far, have you tried the MISPRO ink ? I think they do some serious cleaning on the boards before printing to help it stick, I will do some more research on that when I am not doing anything...lol

Russell.

Hi Russell,
Yeah, i have heard about mispro ink being the best for this application,
but want to first use up those stock T060x carts.
I clean off my boards with Tarn-X which is a mild acid solution
just before i print, i think i will try pickling the boards (pre-etch) before printing
to see if that helps any.
It might be because i am using just black instead of one of the other colors?
Who knows?

[scratch_6057]

As for the PTHs,
While “cleaning” my shop today I came across a bottle of
GC Electronics ‘Nickel Print’. I’m wondering if this stuff
can be soldered to ? ? ? It’s generally used to repair traces.
If I recall, $8.00 - $10.00 for 2 oz bottle.

[epineh]

C88 I know the yahoo guys say to use the magneta ink, even put it in place where the black goes, the printer doesn't know the difference, that is with the MISPRO, as well but I'm sure I read somewhere that the normal ink works , just not as good, I thought they meant with the finer tracks.

Mike, might be worth a try, 2 oz would do a lot of thru holes.

Russell.

[epineh]

OK just to prove I haven't given up on this, today I had a little time so I got a 10mm thick sheet of HDPE I had lying around. I wanted to sit the edge of this on the metal frame that runs underneath the level of the rollers at the rear of the printer, to support it in place, then fix it down at the other end of the sheet to form a base for the carrier and PCB to start from.

I had to mill 2mm away from the edge sitting on the metal to get the height correct, I think it is OK now, I ran out of light as probably shows in the photo's but I am happy with the result. Just need to fix into place, then put on some guide rails.

These home-made CNC routers sure come in handy for little projects like this. I got lazy and cut the corner out for the optic sensor with a hacksaw, heh

C88Mod, here is another page on the original link that gives a little more detail on the printing and curing process, hope it helps :
http://techref.massmind.org/techref/...kjetresist.htm

I notice they have a link to this thread on there

Russell.

[Greolt]

Hey Russell is that a break I see in your router base?????


Pushing that machine pretty hard EH!!!!



Following your progress with that printer. Hats off for giving it a go.

Brand new printer too!!!

[epineh]

ARG!!! you freaked me out there for a while, I had to check the photo's again myself... it is actually made like that, its like a slot with a clamping screw to fix the router in place.

I haven't actually been using the machine much lately, other commitments getting in the way I also have to fix that pesky x-axis.

I know what you mean bout a new printer, it was such a nice printer too lol

[James Newton]

(snip)

...here is another page on the original link that gives a little more detail on the printing and curing process, hope it helps :
http://techref.massmind.org/techref/...kjetresist.htm

I notice they have a link to this thread on there

Russell.

Of course! That is my page and I was VERY happy to see that another person was trying this method. I have high hopes for it really changing the way PCBs are made for the better. I'm trying to make that page become a "one stop" place for people to find everything they need; from old printers that are perhaps cosmetically damaged to the inks, yahoo forum, this forum and anything else related.

I would dearly love to reproduce your posts from this thread onto my page along side the C84 and CX4200 modifications. I don't want to step on anyones toes at CNC Zone, so if you would be willing to send me the pictures and text directly to jamesnewton at massmind org along with your permission to publish them (non-exclusive of course) it would be great!

[chich2]

Russ,
I wonder if you had a talk to some chemical engineers like your 2 nephews, and mix up your own specially made ink for resist printing pcb's. I think they woud find the task easy. They could even tell you the chemical properties of standard ink and go from there or just re-design the ink from scratch.

My 2 cents,
Chich

[epineh]

Hey James, nice to hear from you, no probs from me if you want to re-create this build on your page, it is the least I could do given I followed your method completely. You should be able to simply "save as" the enlarged pictures from the thread to put on your site, the ones I have are the same anyway, if that doesn't work, give me a yell and I will send them along.

I am with you in wanting to make PCB making simpler for everyone, hopefully I have good results with this one and can help out there...

I have been reading a bit on the yahoo group, but I find it a little hard to navigate, I am used to a forum format... I will get there!!! I did notice good results with pre-heating the board first before printing, seems like a good place to start.

I am looking around for an old toaster oven I can "improve" to suit my needs.
If I install a good quality temp. control it should work well.

Cheers.

Russell.

[epineh]

Thats it for the printer, screwed everything down, put on the alignment rails, all is needed now is to setup the card carrier to take the blank PCB and I am in business!!!

I cannot get the MISPRO ink here very easily, any of the ink/cartridge shops look at me REALLY weird when I ask for it, you should see the look on their face when I tell them exactly what I am doing...lol

I have been reading a bit on the Yahoo forum and good results are being achieved with pre-heating the board before printing, then curing in an oven, using the standard ink that comes with the machine, just swapping the black ink with another magenta cartridge. The picture I saw showed tracks down to 3 mil (thats 3 thou, not 3 millimetres!!!). If I can get down to 5 to 10 mil I will be happy.

I don't know why the state the track size that way, but when in Rome...

Russell.

[zoltan]

Russell,

I have read on Yahoo, the original article about printing directly, and also, I have read what you posted here, but I do not understand exactly how you modified the printer. I would like to ask you if you could give me more details, steps of modifying the printer.

Thank you.

Zoltan

[epineh]

Zoltan, most of the mods I have described in posts 5,6,7,8,15 of this thread (with pictures). Post #46 shows the "paper feed" mechanism in place and post 52 is the "paper feed" finished.

I'm not sure what else you need to know, there isn't much else required, basically the whole print head assembly needs to be raised to clear the blank PCB and carrier, and the optic sensor needs to be moved to sense the new layout.

A carrier is used to align the PCB's so that printing takes place EXACTLY the same place each time, for repeatability and to align the print for double sided boards. The carrier is "homed" with the rails I have just installed and the board is aligned on the carrier with strips of PCB that I will be putting on very soon.

Hope this helps.

Russell.

[epineh]

I wonder if the scratch on the cover will void warranty in any way...

[C88mod]

I have switched back to muratic acid+hydrogen peroxide for good.
(really fast etch times + really cheap to get)
I have been printing just using durabrite ink
and yellow seems to hold up way better than the magenta.
the black just washes off after a few minutes, the cyan gets eaten and
the magenta does not hold up like yellow.

has anybody here tried the durabrite yellow?

[C88mod]

Ok, so i bought some ferric chloride yesterday at radio shack, and the new etchant works great.

I am still using durabrite yellow, becuase the magenta does not want to lay down (wet) very well.
Here is a single sided pcb that i did for testing the new etchant.

[miljnor]

thats a tiny pcb!

did you use a hacked printer to make it?

[epineh]

I am (hopefully) going to try some test etching runs this weekend, I will try both yellow and magenta and post the results...

Russell.

[ynneb]

What a fantastic thread !
Thanks for taking the time to post on this one. I will give this a go myself.
I look 4ward to seeing the complete finished circuit board.