AXXB-E and good stepper driver for it

[hautamak]

Hi, I'm planning to upgrade my chinese control board and stepper drivers for something more reliable.

I want to keep 64bit os so gecko540 is ruled out. I'm planning to use axxbe and some gecko drivers with it. Do you have recommendations?

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[ger21]

You can plug a G540 into port 3 of the AXBB-E, and still use a 64 bit OS.

[phomann]

Hi,

Yes you can plug the G540 into port 3 of the AXBB-E. I’ve tested this setup and it works fine.

It works with Mach3/4 and the CNCdrive control software.

Cheers
Peter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[hautamak]

Hi! thanks for replies.

guess I'll go with gecko540. AXBB-E and UCCNC. looking for options as I have lost my trust in steppers with TB6600 drivers...

Could JMC 180w servos be better than gecko and steppers? geared down to 1:3. That would take care of losing steps....

Or Do people here have working stepper cnc's? can you get steppers 100% sure to not loose steps NEVER?

I'm pulling my hairs of with those TB6600 ..

-Hautamak

[ericks]

Hi, i am using AXBB-E, UCCNC and Leadshine drives......zero issues.

[ger21]

Or Do people here have working stepper cnc's? can you get steppers 100% sure to not loose steps NEVER?

Yes, thousands of people have stepper powered machines that never lose steps. The key is to not try to run them faster than they are capable of.

Leadshine EM series drives are very good.

[hautamak]

Hi, Thanks for replies. Tried different speeds and acceleration today. nothing got better.

Is there some reason to not buy JMC servos as they are really close to price of EM series drivers? Would servo system be better as you could never ever get it loose steps?

[hautamak]

Also wondering if I should buy g210X or leadshine Em-series

[joeavaerage]

Hi,

Is there some reason to not buy JMC servos as they are really close to price of EM series drivers? Would servo system be better as you could never ever get it loose steps?

JMC servos are cheap and are trying to compete against the better stepper systems. They have to cut corners to achieve the prices they do.
I think that genuine AC servos of good quality and good backup that won't break the bank are DMM (Canadian manufactured in China) and Delta (Taiwanese
manufactured in China). As good as these two brands are for quality/price they are still probably double the price of good open loop steppers and drvivers.

Would servo system be better as you could never ever get it loose steps?

All axis motors lose steps IF they are overloaded, and that includes servos. A closed loop driver will insert extra steps for a servo or stepper to 'catch
up' but if the motor is overloaded it 'CAN'T catch up', and that applies to either steppers or servos.

All steppers lose torque the faster they go, so steppers are more inclined to lose steps at speed, they are in effect overloaded so closed loop
control won't save them from losing steps.

Servos on the other hand have (usually) constant rated torque up to the rated speed of the servo. They also have a short term overload torque
of anywhere up to 3 or 4 times rated torque. Its this ability for servos to deliver very high torque, even for such a brief time, and so follow
the commanded toolpath whereas a stepper would just plain stall. This overload capacity is very VERY good......but it costs.

If you have the budget then AC servos are great, but I think I would be looking for better quality than JMC.

I have bought three 750W B2 series Delta servos (one braked) for my new build mill......and they'll EAT any stepper ever made but they cost
me $1700USD (including three day DHL shipping to New Zealand).

Craig

[hautamak]

Thanks for detailed information. I looked DMM servos and it was about 1500euros... for good stepper setup with gecko and dc supply around 450 and for EM leadshine drives and dc power supply 650-750.

With gecko I'm restricted to 50volts and EM drivers could go to 80 volts.

So, more speed at more money, but do hobbyist like me really benefit of having EM drives over gecko 540, if speed doesn't matter? I'm now running with 24volts and speed is okay, not so fast but not slow either. Missed steps really bugs me and it's not because acc or vel settings as I have got z axis to lose steps both way.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
I am going to assume that your CNC software and motion controller are nor responsible for the lost steps. That being the case then
missed steps are a sign that the stepper is overloaded, I don't care whether you think max velocity or acceleration are not the problem,
I'm saying the the stepper is OVERLOADED, either it does not have enough holding torque or that the torque diminishes at speed and THEREBY
becomes overloaded. At the speed/accel being asked of the stepper its overloaded PERIOD.

Try reducing the max velocity to 1/10^th and the acceleration to 1/10^th and try a known good program. Does it miss
steps?. If no then increase the speed and accel to 2/10^th and run the same program. Repeat until you start to miss steps, that will
be the max velocity and acceleration your existing steppers and drives can handle before missing steps.

If that speed is adequate....all's well, leave it alone. If not then consider replacing either or both the stepper or drives with either better steppers
and/or drives or go the whole hog and get servos.

Craig

[phomann]

There is another source of missing steps, EMI from a spindle motor or VFD.
Changing the drive system is not likely going to fix that.

Cheers

Peter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[joeavaerage]

Hi,

There is another source of missing steps, EMI from a spindle motor or VFD

That could indeed be the case. To OP, try running a known good program but with the VFD/spindle not operating. Does it lose steps?.
If not it suggests EMI as phomann has posted.

Maybe you could try the 1/10^th speed/accel tests with 1), the spindle not running and then again 2), the spindle running.

You need to complete some tests that give you a definite cause for the lost steps. Any thought of spending dollars WITHOUT having
established that it will correct the fault is foolhardy. My guess is that the steppers are losing torque at speed and thereby losing steps,
but that's only a guess.

Craig

[ger21]

You might want to look at older Leadshine AM882 drives on Ebay. Similar performance to the EM drives, for $70-$80 each. I have 4 of them myself.
Or, a Leadshine MX4660, which is similar to a G540, but more powerful.

[hautamak]

Hello!

I thought that too. That I'm running them too fast... Now I set my speed 100mm/m and acc 30mm/s and still loosing steps.

I run program that rise Z by 3mm at speed of 100mm/m and lowered it back to 0 with speed of 10mm/m it was missing steps at 100mm/m speed. I run program other way round so that it was rising by 10mm/m and lowered it 100mm/m and it was loosing steps again with 100mm/m speed. So I think it's not issue of power or nothing like that. I also run only Z-axis nothing else with arduino GRBL and still same result 10 times rising and lowering resulted 0.1mm off. and if I run longer program it continues to grow.

My tb6600 are cheapest ones I found online so my bad at going too cheap and didn't listen folks here saying dont buy chinese...

It seems that my chinese usb motion controller for 16€ is not the broken or faulty one. Still going to replace it someday. first gonna run some tests with other tb6600 if they are faulty as well.

[hautamak]

And thanks for everyone here trying to help some random Finnish guy trying to get his cheapo router working!

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
if you have tried running them really slow as you have described and still the problem persists the I think its probably NOT the steppers or
drivers at fault.

I believe your machine would be better with better drivers and/or steppers, but I would be looking at the controller as probably faulty.

In order for your machine to work well BOTH the PC/motion controller AND the drivrs/steppers must work perfectly. In this instance I think
that upgrading to an AXXB-E motion board and either Mach3 or Mach4 or UCCNC is a worthy investment, it may solve all your issues
or maybe not, but you will have invested in good motion board and PC software......and you will never be disappointed with it....and you'll
have it for years.

Craig

[hautamak]

Hi,
if you have tried running them really slow as you have described and still the problem persists the I think its probably NOT the steppers or
drivers at fault.

I believe your machine would be better with better drivers and/or steppers, but I would be looking at the controller as probably faulty.

In order for your machine to work well BOTH the PC/motion controller AND the drivrs/steppers must work perfectly. In this instance I think
that upgrading to an AXXB-E motion board and either Mach3 or Mach4 or UCCNC is a worthy investment, it may solve all your issues
or maybe not, but you will have invested in good motion board and PC software......and you will never be disappointed with it....and you'll
have it for years.

Craig

Yes I'll be upgrading my controller and driver anyway, but where to start. If problem is in drivers new controller don't help much. And vice versa. I tried usb mach 3 controller and GRBL but both resulted lost steps. So that's why I think it must be drivers.

How well uccnc performs with laser? Does it have laser power fixed to xy speed so it won't burn in corners where speed decreases?

I have asked local hobbyists if they can borrow me stepper driver to check if those tb6600 are faulty

[joeavaerage]

Hi,

How well uccnc performs with laser? Does it have laser power fixed to xy speed so it won't burn in corners where speed decreases?

I'm not familiar enough with UCCNC to answer.

I can tell you the Ethernet SmoothStepper and Mach4 have a very complete suite of laser control features, including speed coupled laser
modulation but also laser vectoring/rastering

Craig

[hautamak]

Okay, mach4 is 200€ and uccnc 50€ and lasering is not my primary jobs. So had to think that

Update:
I tried TB6600 with GRBL and old printer stepper and didn't get it loose steps even with 32 microstepping. It seems that somehow it is linked to my nema 23 or it's still somehow mechanical issue and it loses steps both ways depending on speed. could be binding as I'm using leadscrew with two nuts.

Whoa getting cnc to reliable with these chinese parts and cheapest solutions is pain.. Wish I had waited for bit and invested better components...