Why does this program make the machine crash? - with video

[machinehop5]

...try with No H code. somewhere there is a parameter to set H and D codes use or not...I think. look in your manuals

[ashes-man]

...try with No H code. somewhere there is a parameter to set H and D codes use or not...I think. look in your manuals

If I remove G43 H1, then the arc works correctly. Its position is out, but it works. The same effect happens if I leave G43 H1 in and set the tool offset to zero. The moment the tool offset is used and not zero, it does the huge arc. Note that the center is the same for the arc with and without H1 used. I probably also should have mentioned that no other values of I and K are valid either. I tried to alter K down by the distance the arc center is out from where it should be and it got a circle error. Any value other than those given result in a circle error.

Unfortunately I have all the manuals for this machine except the programming manual. I tried to hunt it down through previous owners but no luck. I can buy one for $300 but have been considering replacing the controller all together so didn't want to spend any money on manuals for this one. I have a Mazak M32 manual but it is not the same controller. That manual does not give much more information than any G code tutorial web site.

[machinehop5]

...300 is a hard pill to take...hopefully a real mazak person will help at some point.

[ashes-man]

...old school was T010101

Can you please explain what T010101 means?

[machinehop5]

Can you please explain what T010101 means?

...early CNC format
https://www.cnczone.com/forums/fanuc...et-advice.html

[mactec54]

While I appreciate everyone's help and please don't stop giving advice, the crash I am worried about is not at all to do with the start move, it is the arc. The start move just gets to where the arc needs to begin. There is no work in the machine so so no risk. What I really want to focus on is the arc movement and why it goes nuts at 1:42 in the video.

How did you arrive at the H1 with a 50 offset

[mactec54]

Can you please explain what T010101 means?

That is for lathe programing nothing to do with your mill

[mactec54]

OK, So I did another experiment today. This time I setup a proper tool offset and set the work offset to a real location. The result was exactly the same, the arc does not go as expected.

What I have managed to prove I think is that the arc center is not taking the tool length compensation into account. The arc Z center is always at work offset Z - radius. This suggests that K is absolute. But even absolute should use tool height compensation? Also, I did a test and proved that I and J are incremental. I also found a printout from factory of all the machine parameters and checked they are as per factory.

I have prepared a better example program and a drawing showing what happens. Maybe this will better help people understand what I am seeing. See attached picture and pdf for higher resolution.

I did not run this program on the machine, just on the controllers tool path simulator, but I know from experience it will make it go bang! I suspect the bang is caused when it tries to perform an arc that does not lie on both the start and end points. The simulation shows the arc start point disconnected from machines current position. In practice the machine starts moving from its actual position then sometime later packs a sad.

Now you have it set up basically how it should be, try this I'm not sure what your radius ( R ) is but change it to suit what you need

Your first X Y move into position also needs to be used with a G17 you have G17 active so nothing to worry about

G18G3X50.Z-50.R50.F175.

[mactec54]

ashes-man

You could also try it like this

G18G3X50.Z-50.F100.

[ashes-man]

Now you have it set up basically how it should be, try this I'm not sure what your radius ( R ) is but change it to suit what you need

Your first X Y move into position also needs to be used with a G17 you have G17 active so nothing to worry about

G18G3X50.Z-50.R50.F175.

Thanks for the idea. I have tried radius instead of ijk but got exactly the same behavior. I also tried with a feed rate too. Nothing I try changes anything, I am going mad!!!

[machinehop5]

...hold the phone mate.. Isn't G3 counterclockwize arc?

[ashes-man]

...hold the phone mate.. Isn't G3 counterclockwize arc?

That's what I thought too. But according to the Mazak M32 manual I have and the fusion generated code, G3 is clockwise when viewed from this orientation in the XZ plane. But I could be wrong. Also, when tool height offset is not used or is zero, the arc draws as expected.

[ashes-man]

So, another round of experimenting tonight with no joy. I tried:
- Making an arc in the YZ plane, and it does the exact same thing as the XZ plane
- Putting the G43 after the change to G18 plane, no change
- Added a J0. to the G3 command, no change
- Replacing the K with J in the G3 command (just for a try!), circle diameter error
- Tried changing the G43 to G44 and reversing the tool length offset, got the same result

In the M32 manual I have which is a slightly newer controller has a statement that says "Tool length data can be set for the X axis, the Y axis and additional axis, as well as the Z axis. Whether the offset data iis used for the Z axis only or for the axis the correspond to the commands G43 or G44 can be selected using bit 3 of parameter F92.". My machine doesn't have an F92 parameter, only lots of I J K and H user parameters.

I am wondering if it is time to stump up for the manual, but am really worried I will buy it ane never refer to it again. I have not found much useful in the M32 manual...

[Superman]

What happens if the G18 was replaced with G17 ?

... I suspect you may get the same rapid move when the program rewinds, hitting the M2/M30 forces some sort of cancelling of H1 or other machine settings.
... try running program in single step WITH feed & rapid override set to zero, compare distance to go against each program line & position before allowing axes to move. It may show that it completes the G3 move, & the crash occurring when it hits the M30.
Or it may be that you don't change back to G17 plane before ending the program.

[machinehop5]

...I read something about Parameter F91 in this thread post # 15
https://www.cnczone.com/forums/mazak...743-mazak.html

quote..
"Just to confirm is it a FF510 Horizontal or Vertical Nexus 510

Either way not too much difference neway

Both machines use same format.
Most important is to decide whether you want to use H registers or just Mazatrol tool lengths. This is set in F91 params

Toolchange is different using M6T1T0 command
Need to check PLC params to ensure machine will got to toolchange position when command. If doesnt either G30G91X0Y0Z0 or change PLC param

G43Z H is actually optional. you can set machine to automatically apply length offset, which is better."

[mactec54]

Thanks for the idea. I have tried radius instead of ijk but got exactly the same behavior. I also tried with a feed rate too. Nothing I try changes anything, I am going mad!!!

Another thing to try that you have not tried

If your tool is Z0 on the top of the part then the program should be like this

G18G3X50.Z0.R50.F100.

G2 if you are going clockwise G17
G3 if you are going anti clockwise G17

Depending on how it is used through the X axis

[mactec54]

...hold the phone mate.. Isn't G3 counterclockwize arc?

If you are using G17 that would be correct for what he is doing a G18 is a G3

[ashes-man]

OK, thanks again everyone for the ideas and advice. Please don't stop helping!

I think I have already tried everything that has been suggested. I am waiting to hear back on the price and availability of the proper manual for the machine if I can still get it. I doubt it will help, but I am that desperate now!

I do have a request please. I was wondering if someone would be willing to dry run my program on their machine to confirm it works correctly, even on the tool path simulator. There has been a lot of suggestions on how to change the code, but if we could have an agreed known working program, then that would rule the code out completely. In my head I have already ruled it out, but others may not feel the same.

Here is my current test program. I have tested in in https://ncviewer.com/ and also on my Mach 3 driven CNC router.

(Do an arc in XZ)
G90 G17 G49
G53 Z0.
G54
G0 X0. Y0.
G43 Z10. H1
G1 Z0. F175
G18
G3 X50. Z-50. I0. K-50.
M30

[mactec54]

OK, thanks again everyone for the ideas and advice. Please don't stop helping!

I think I have already tried everything that has been suggested. I am waiting to hear back on the price and availability of the proper manual for the machine if I can still get it. I doubt it will help, but I am that desperate now!

I do have a request please. I was wondering if someone would be willing to dry run my program on their machine to confirm it works correctly, even on the tool path simulator. There has been a lot of suggestions on how to change the code, but if we could have an agreed known working program, then that would rule the code out completely. In my head I have already ruled it out, but others may not feel the same.

Here is my current test program. I have tested in in https://ncviewer.com/ and also on my Mach 3 driven CNC router.

(Do an arc in XZ)
G90 G17 G49
G53 Z0.
G54
G0 X0. Y0.
G43 Z10. H1
G1 Z0. F175
G18
G3 X50. Z-50. I0. K-50.
M30

Is the Z-50. to the top of the part

You can't use a ( 0 ) for the ( I ) value

I - Distance along X Axis to center of circle

K - Distance along Z Axis to center of circle

[machinehop5]

...Does your control have F91 Parameters?