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  1. #61
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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    Yes, I got it figured out it had to do with Homing on B and I did add noise filtering on the ESS side.

    Now I am working on getting the spindle to turn on and off with Mach4. I have the port and pin configured the same as it was in Mach3 and the ESS but is on all the time Mach4 is running. Regardless of that same port and pin on or off? I will find the problem but everything else seems to be working. I know its from the Mach4 program because when I exit the spindle goes right off.

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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    Ok got it all working!! On the last one I had to post on Warp9 Forum or I will still be looking. Simple, but the step by step directions from Mach3 to Mach4 need some additional info. More than likely would have been simpler to start from scratch.

    Last edited by wmgeorge; 03-21-2019 at 07:31 PM.
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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    1) The Acorn is not even an option due to the limited I/O.
    How much I/O do you need for a 4 axes router

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    How much I/O do you need for a 4 axes router

    It depends upon what you want to do with your machine. If you even think you might want to add a rotary axis (it's on my list), Acorn would be a bad choice. I'd rather not have to try to figure out workarounds, when there are boards/software out there that have more capacity. Not knocking Acorn. I've never used it, so I don't have an opinion about it one way or the other - except for the 4 axis limitation.



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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    Quote Originally Posted by GME View Post
    It depends upon what you want to do with your machine. If you even think you might want to add a rotary axis (it's on my list), Acorn would be a bad choice. I'd rather not have to try to figure out workarounds, when there are boards/software out there that have more capacity. Not knocking Acorn. I've never used it, so I don't have an opinion about it one way or the other - except for the 4 axis limitation.
    Bingo. Plus I was told I needed a serious Windows 10 computer If I wanted to run a Professional grade Controller as the Acorn. I have one more test to do in the morning before before I am done. So far I have learned a lot, someday I might add a ATC, who knows?

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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    Quote Originally Posted by GME View Post
    It depends upon what you want to do with your machine. If you even think you might want to add a rotary axis (it's on my list), Acorn would be a bad choice. I'd rather not have to try to figure out workarounds, when there are boards/software out there that have more capacity. Not knocking Acorn. I've never used it, so I don't have an opinion about it one way or the other - except for the 4 axis limitation.
    I think you are mistaken you have to be creative you can run 5 motors or more if you wanted too, this is where most get confused, with the acorn or any 4 axes board this is possible, you only need 3 axes outputs to run 4 motors for X Y Z

    2 motors can easily be run from one axes output, which is the best way to do it anyway then both receive the same perfect pulse output, you can even have the motors running in opposite directions which is normal for this setup, so you have the 4th axes free do what ever you want

    They have more on there board than most have Encoder for threading Spindle control MPG 8 relays all just plug and play and more so is ahead of the game compared to most

    I have not used Acorn either but will test it at some time

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    Bingo. Plus I was told I needed a serious Windows 10 computer If I wanted to run a Professional grade Controller as the Acorn. I have one more test to do in the morning before before I am done. So far I have learned a lot, someday I might add a ATC, who knows?
    I don't think a Ethernet single core CPU and 4G of ram= a Professional grade computer, I plan to test it on a tablet when I get it, I have not found a control that won't run on it yet, and have 5 different controls I have tested on it

    One like this with a touch screen works very well so far

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Mach 4 Users-windows10-tablet-touch-screen-png  
    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    8 relays all just plug and play
    You can get basically the same relay board for $11.50. (Although the latest pics on their site now show a different board.)
    https://www.amazon.com/8-Channel-Opt...ay&sr=8-6&th=1

    Gerry

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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    You can get basically the same relay board for $11.50. (Although the latest pics on their site now show a different board.)
    https://www.amazon.com/8-Channel-Opt...ay&sr=8-6&th=1
    Sure you don't have to buy what they have besides you may need different capacity Relays so it is always better to do them separate or in pairs or what ever you need

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    I think you are mistaken you have to be creative you can run 5 motors or more if you wanted too, this is where most get confused, with the acorn or any 4 axes board this is possible, you only need 3 axes outputs to run 4 motors for X Y Z

    2 motors can easily be run from one axes output, which is the best way to do it anyway then both receive the same perfect pulse output, you can even have the motors running in opposite directions which is normal for this setup, so you have the 4th axes free do what ever you want

    They have more on there board than most have Encoder for threading Spindle control MPG 8 relays all just plug and play and more so is ahead of the game compared to most

    I have not used Acorn either but will test it at some time

    I never thought about running 2 motors off of one output, but I understand that phase wires to one are reversed to reverse direction. However, if you wanted to home to 2 separate switches, you couldn't. The two motors would be running off the same signal, so you wouldn't have a master/slave relationship and could home to just one sensor. Auto squaring would not be possible to preserve an already perfect mechanical alignment. (I'm not a fan of correcting mechanical gantry misalignments with auto square.)

    I wonder whether one could reliably count on the two steppers turning on and off in precisely the same position every time, so as to preserve a perfectly squared gantry over time. What about bumping in the gantry on one side when the machine is turned off? Suppose one side is moved out of position .010"? Auto square would, at least in theory, restore perfect alignment. Wouldn't homing to just one switch preserve the induced error? Same sort of problem if there are some lost steps on one side only. Wouldn't homing to one switch preserve the the error vs homing to two switches, which would correct it?




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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    I did my final test with Mach4 this morning and it is working great! For the first time I have a Homing that works correctly and even the motors seem smoother. I paid for my License now it on to the next project.

    Right now... its putting the snow blower away and getting the JD riding lawn mower out of the shed.

    1000x750 Workbee CNC - Mach4 - PMDX USB - Windows 10 Pro


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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    I did my final test with Mach4 this morning and it is working great! For the first time I have a Homing that works correctly and even the motors seem smoother. I paid for my License now it on to the next project.

    Right now... its putting the snow blower away and getting the JD riding lawn mower out of the shed.
    Excellent news! I know from your posts that it was an adventure.

    Spring has sprung!

    Gary



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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    It's snowing here right now....

    Gerry

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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    It's snowing here right now....
    Yikes!



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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    Quote Originally Posted by GME View Post

    I never thought about running 2 motors off of one output, but I understand that phase wires to one are reversed to reverse direction. However, if you wanted to home to 2 separate switches, you couldn't. The two motors would be running off the same signal, so you wouldn't have a master/slave relationship and could home to just one sensor. Auto squaring would not be possible to preserve an already perfect mechanical alignment. (I'm not a fan of correcting mechanical gantry misalignments with auto square.)

    I wonder whether one could reliably count on the two steppers turning on and off in precisely the same position every time, so as to preserve a perfectly squared gantry over time. What about bumping in the gantry on one side when the machine is turned off? Suppose one side is moved out of position .010"? Auto square would, at least in theory, restore perfect alignment. Wouldn't homing to just one switch preserve the induced error? Same sort of problem if there are some lost steps on one side only. Wouldn't homing to one switch preserve the the error vs homing to two switches, which would correct it?
    You should not be doing that anyway build a rigid machine and you only need one home switch for each axes, this works just fine been doing it for years 1 axes 2 motors and you just switch the wires as to what direction you want the motor to run, there are Breakout Boards that are made like this as well DMM has one

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    It's snowing here right now....

    My wife's sister and husband live over by Jackson, just got back from Mexico I hope they are not getting it! My John Deere rider, got it out of the shed and it started up on the first try. StayBIL in the gas and a battery charge up in the middle of the winter helps.

    1000x750 Workbee CNC - Mach4 - PMDX USB - Windows 10 Pro


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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    I never thought about running 2 motors off of one output, but I understand that phase wires to one are reversed to reverse direction.

    Thats what you do when you Slave a motor. Use the same signal for both motor Drivers. So on the Saturn2 and I assume most large machines with a heavy long Y axis, the other side is Slaved as a "B" on that machine anyway,

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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    I never thought about running 2 motors off of one output, but I understand that phase wires to one are reversed to reverse direction.

    Thats what you do when you Slave a motor. Use the same signal for both motor Drivers. So on the Saturn2 and I assume most large machines with a heavy long Y axis, the other side is Slaved as a "B" on that machine anyway,


    Well, sort of. I'm not sure whether the Y/Slave combination actually runs off of the same signal, but even if it does, the two Y axis motors (Y + A or B) run independently when referencing all home. That was my point. By running two motors off one signal, you lose the ability to home off of 2 switches, which means any induced error will necessarily remain, until detected and fixed. Using two properly adjusted homing switches ensures that induced errors are corrected each time you reference all home.

    Although I've never worked with one of the big, super heavy machines, I suspect that knocking the gantry out alignment isn't something that happens easily. In my shop, which doesn't have an abundance of room around the sides of the CNC, bumping into the gantry is something I can count on. It's happened in the past, and will certainly happen in the future. Also, I suspect that essentially all of the big honkers run servos, which takes care of errors caused by lost steps. My CNC will be about twice the weight and tube size of most kit machines, but as a bolt together aluminum extrusion-based machine, it will never have the same attributes as a commercial machine.




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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    I'll have a video up shortly showing the Acorn auto square on my Saturn since I just got the newest firmware update installed a couple days ago.

    For every one that keeps bringing up the lack of inputs and outputs they will be releasing a ethernet expansion board that will have a additional 16 inputs and 16 outputs. So don't shy away from the Acorn thinking it's limited in the capabilities of what you can run.

    I'm still amazed that people are still unsure about the controller, I'm yet to hear from anyone on the Centroid forum that has used it that isn't happy with it once they get their machine set up. Granted for some it's a bit more of a challenge than for others. This was the first cnc build for me and I had zero issues with the Acorn and it only took a couple days to get up and running and making chips. The only reason my build took so long was because Fineline took so long to get me all my parts for the machine. The thing just works and they are aggressively working on new hardware and software updates. I'm personally stoked I made the right decision for my first cnc machine and can't wait till I get my MPG ordered up.



    Dan



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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    Quote Originally Posted by Ntl View Post
    I'll have a video up shortly showing the Acorn auto square on my Saturn since I just got the newest firmware update installed a couple days ago.

    For every one that keeps bringing up the lack of inputs and outputs they will be releasing a ethernet expansion board that will have a additional 16 inputs and 16 outputs. So don't shy away from the Acorn thinking it's limited in the capabilities of what you can run.

    I'm still amazed that people are still unsure about the controller, I'm yet to hear from anyone on the Centroid forum that has used it that isn't happy with it once they get their machine set up. Granted for some it's a bit more of a challenge than for others. This was the first cnc build for me and I had zero issues with the Acorn and it only took a couple days to get up and running and making chips. The only reason my build took so long was because Fineline took so long to get me all my parts for the machine. The thing just works and they are aggressively working on new hardware and software updates. I'm personally stoked I made the right decision for my first cnc machine and can't wait till I get my MPG ordered up.



    Dan

    Dan, it's not a question of inputs and output. The issue that keeps coming up is the number of motor control outputs. Not the same thing. I have not heard any news of Acorn expanding from four motor control outputs to six. Let's assume you want to add a rotary axis, which adds a 5th stepper motor. How would you add it to your Acorn? You could definitely do it by running one control circuit to both Y and Y slave and wiring the slave to run in the opposite direction as Y. However, you lose the ability to auto square. You will have to home to just one sensor on Y. Auto square is dependent upon both Y steppers being wired to different motor control outputs. I don't believe you can add a 5th stepper and keep auto square. If I'm wrong, I'd be interested in an explanation of how to do it.

    Don't get the impression I'm knocking Acorn. I haven't run it, and don't know that much about it. When I saw that it only supports 4 steppers and didn't find any indication that it was going to expand to the usual 6, I had all I needed to know about it. I don't yet have a 4th axis (5th stepper), but I want to option to add it if/when I'm ready.

    Gary




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