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  1. #41
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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    Quote Originally Posted by Ntl View Post
    I know that Franco had a Grizzly and switched to a PM , to me it seems like a lateral move. The main thing I want to know is if one is more rigid than the others and which one has the best spindle and casting.
    Dan,

    The Grizzly G0704 and PM25MV are very similar, but there are a few differences I found important. The PM's ways are ground; Grizzly's are comparatively rough. The PM has a belt drive, Very smooth and quiet. The Grizzly has a plastic gear drive. The gears have a history of breaking and are noisy. If you ever want to convert to CNC, you have to grind out part of the saddle on the Grizzly so the ball screw/nut will fit. The PM has more room and it's just a pretty straightforward bolt on conversion. If you don't want CNC, but want to install scales and DRO, Grizzly's angled base makes installing the scale on the Y axis a whole lot more more work. The Grizzly is less expensive, but you get more overall quality on the PM (IMO). Franco's Youtube video comparing the two machines helped me decide which of the two machines I wanted. I had previously read about the G0704's gear problems and that alone kept me from pulling the trigger and kept me reading rather than buying.

    If you don't convert to CNC, I believe a DRO is a must. Counting turns of the handwheels to position the work is really doing it the hard way and slows everything down. I cut one part, a very simple one, and a DRO became a no-brainer. High quality magnetic scales are way better than the glass ones, but are also way more money.

    FWIW, I've cut steel on my mill and its done just fine. I'm sure the Grizzly would do the same.

    Gary




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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    Speaking of Mach4 again. I went out this afternoon, and my Mach3 works fine but I can not get the ESS with the latest plug in to work with the Version 2 of Mach4. It sees it but says it can not communicate with it? Not sure if the IP address being at 10.9.9.2 is the issue or not but the Mach3 plug in talks fine to the ESS. Time to contact Warp9 I guess. The CNCRP panel ESS came pre-configured with that IP address instead of the default. Its more brain work... but its so nice here, outside sunshine and 50 DegF.

    Bill,

    10.9.9.2 is the correct Adapter IP address and is what the Warp9 system configuration utility gives you by default. It's not a setting that's CNCRP box specific. The Smoothstepper IP should be 10.9.9.9. I didn't have to do anything special to get smoothstepper working with Mach4 when I upgraded, although I did set up a new profile. I didn't try to use one of the default ones.

    When you start Mach4 and create your new profile, you should get a screen that asks for your ESS IP address. If it isn't prefilled, you enter the default for the ESS IP: 10.9.9.9. I'm guessing that you didn't create a new profile when starting Mach4 and that's where the problem lies.

    Gary




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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    Thanks Gary, I need to get that all sorted out in my head. It could be the Norton's Firewall which is only set up for the Mach3 part. As far as I am concerned the Norton's Firewall is going to be turned off first!


    OK got it, pilot error, failure to read directions. Now on the Configure Pins screen...

    Last edited by wmgeorge; 03-16-2019 at 11:57 AM.
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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    Imo, You shouldn't even have Norton installed on the PC. (Any PC, for that matter. )

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
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    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    Imo, You shouldn't even have Norton installed on the PC. (Any PC, for that matter. )
    You have never lost an entire computer, programs and data to Ransomware? In spite of a name brand downloaded free, but I paid for it virus software. Never happened before and I have been Tekkie and around computers since the early 1980s. I purchased and use Nortons right after I lost it all. The only thing that made it a little easier was I had just switched over to a SSD two months before and I had the old HD for a backup....

    1000x750 Workbee CNC - Mach4 - PMDX USB - Windows 10 Pro


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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    You have never lost an entire computer, programs and data to Ransomware?
    No, and I doubt many people have. Regular backups would be a better option imo.

    I'm not anti anti-virus, but the big name ones are too intrusive, and too bloated. I've used a lot of free ones over the years, and am currently partial to Windows defender.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    Back to Mach4, I got the rest of the settings transferred over today and the Axis assigned in the Mach Control pull down and the motors work. So the rest gets worked on maybe tomorrow.

    1000x750 Workbee CNC - Mach4 - PMDX USB - Windows 10 Pro


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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    And Gerry, one virus in 40 years... not so bad. Plus I have taken at least 4 off other peoples machines. Yes Ransomware can happen to anyone....

    1000x750 Workbee CNC - Mach4 - PMDX USB - Windows 10 Pro


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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    Back to Mach4, I got the rest of the settings transferred over today and the Axis assigned in the Mach Control pull down and the motors work. So the rest gets worked on maybe tomorrow.
    Excellent news, Bill. I hope the rest of the testing goes well.

    Did I oversell how straightforward the setup is? I see you had questions about the motor setup on the Mach support site. Gotta read those instructions. The answer was in the Warp9 setup instructions. Once you finish with the ESS config, the folks at Warp9 were kind enough to give you settings in the Mach4 config (motors, homing, spindle, etc.).

    FWIW, I believe I have a more definitive answer why CNCRP hasn't started supporting Mach4. I was reading in the Warp9 site and found that Warp9 is working on THC control through the smoothstepper when using Mach4. The beta testers found some issues last Friday that Andy at Warp9 is working on fixing. Piecing it all together, smoothstepper cannot yet handle torch height control with Mach4, and until does, CNCRP won't support Mach4. I suppose it's because CNCRP expanded their line to include plasma and want the software (currently Mach3) to support everything they are selling. Makes sense, I guess, but I would think it better practice to make Mach4 available for routers, which I suspect is the majority of CNCRP machine sales, and then add THC for plasma when smoothstepper supports it. That's just me, though.

    Bottom line: it's going to be awhile longer before Warp9 gets the THC thing ironed out.

    Gary




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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    I wonder what percent of users are going the plasma route? My PlasmaCAM controller tied into the HyperTherm torch controls to control the torch height. Something about the control voltage signal measuring.

    No I found the Warp9 instructions confusing and scattered to say the least. Your lead to believe once you get the ESS setup its all done. Not true. You need to go into the Mach pull down configuration and sometimes re-enter the same information. This is using the new and improved version plug in 233. Regardless I got it figured out. The motors seem a lot smoother and I like that I can customize the screen.

    Its interesting I just came off another Forum where a experienced CNC person who is in the business, said the "hobby controllers" which I assumed meaning Mach3 and now Mach4 Hobby were so inferior to the professional grade Acorn? Which is what he is promoting, surprise. I looked at the Acorn before going to Mach4, I could not justify the extra expense. Perhaps if I was building from the start I would go that route.

    1000x750 Workbee CNC - Mach4 - PMDX USB - Windows 10 Pro


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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    Its interesting I just came off another Forum where a experienced CNC person who is in the business, said the "hobby controllers" which I assumed meaning Mach3 and now Mach4 Hobby were so inferior to the professional grade Acorn?
    1) how do you define "Professional" or "Commercial" grade? One person's Professional Grade is an other person's toy.

    2) Everyone has their own personal preferences (and biases).

    3) No software or control is perfect for everyone. Different people have different needs or requirements, and not all controls (even "Professional" ones) will always meet those needs.

    When I started designing a new machine, I had intended to use Mach4, and bought a license. There were enough things about it that I didn't like, that led me to UCCNC. The Acorn is not even an option due to the limited I/O.

    While the Acorn certainly has it's fans, there are also people that have had poor experiences with it.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    1) how do you define "Professional" or "Commercial" grade? One person's Professional Grade is an other person's toy
    When I started designing a new machine, I had intended to use Mach4, and bought a license. There were enough things about it that I didn't like, that led me to UCCNC. The Acorn is not even an option due to the limited I/O.
    While the Acorn certainly has it's fans, there are also people that have had poor experiences with it.
    It was the other persons judgement Gerry not mine. I was just surprised to see it posted that way. I am going by the information I found online about Mach4, from users. Did not find a lot of negative.

    1000x750 Workbee CNC - Mach4 - PMDX USB - Windows 10 Pro


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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    It was the other persons judgement Gerry not mine. I was just surprised to see it posted that way. I am going by the information I found online about Mach4, from users. Did not find a lot of negative.
    It's because it has a small userbase. When enough people will use it then you will find negatives.



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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    When I said "How do you", I should have said "How does one define". I didn't mean you specifically.
    My point is that there is no standard that defines the difference between what some call a "professional" control and a "hobby" control.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    Back to Mach4, How did you guys handle the Slave of Y the B axis, did you make it #4 to Home or Home in Place? Or just let it do what Y did?

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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    Back to Mach4, How did you guys handle the Slave of Y the B axis, did you make it #4 to Home or Home in Place? Or just let it do what Y did?

    I just let Mach4 and ESS handle the slaved axis homing based upon the axis mapping shown in the Mach4 config. Do not check home in place or home to index pin.



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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    Hey Bill. Off topic. A quick update on my build. I went back through the adjustments on my mill. I tightened all of the gibs, which were way too loose. That necessitated having to retram in both directions, and relevel the whole machine. I then leveled my auxiliary support to stock placed in my vise. Got everything plumb and square to as close to perfection as I am able measure. Level was pretty easy. I have a 12" machinist's level that's good to within .0005 in 10" and a Pro Tram System, which does a nice job.

    I am making a work table similar to the Festool MFT, only larger. I am using 1.5" x 3" extrusions from my old CNC. I mounted them so the 3" section was vertical, to simulate what I'll get when cutting the 3" x 3" extrusions for my new router frame. Made sense to me to use something other than my new extrusions. Better to experiment with the lower priced stuff.

    Long story short, the ends milled such that they were perfectly square in both directions. I got a bit of minor chatter, and no amount of change in feeds and speeds would totally eliminate it. I suspect that using a 5/8" x 4" cut length HSS endmill to skim off a few thousands (.006") x 3" didn't help. At least the endmill is very sharp. The slight chatter didn't hurt the accuracy, which is the most important thing to me. Oh yeah, I'm using mist cooling, which works great. It keeps the chips blown out of the cut zone and lubricates the cut. Noga Mini Cool with 19" hose.

    I have to finish cutting and milling my table pieces. Then, I'm ready to start documenting my router build. I'll still be working around my remodel projects, so it's going to be spread out some. On the plus side, I need to make a couple dozen rosettes for doors and windows, and need to get the CNC built to make them. My wife wants the bedroom finished, so I get time to work on the CNC to make that happen. Isn't compromise a wonderful thing? More to follow with photos.

    Gary




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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    At least your making good progress Gary. I still am working on the Homing on Mach4 it does work but trips a Limit in the process which screws things up. In the mean time I am like you I need to get some minor jobs done to finish the kitchen.

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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    I still am working on the Homing on Mach4 it does work but trips a Limit in the process which screws things up.

    ?????? I don't understand what condition you are describing. How do you trip a limit switch while homing, unless it's the homing switch? If it's an unexplained random trip, you could have a noise issue. You might try some noise filtering on the switches in the ESS config, Pins Config screen. Maybe 500 or 1000.

    You might check Mach3 and see what your debounce setting is. I believe that's what you'd use in Mach3 to prevent limit switches from triggering from noise. If you have a pretty high number, say 2000 or 3000, that might explain why no problem in Mach3. If memory serves, and it doesn't always, the CNCRP Mach3 setup comes with the debounce set at 2000. The ESS setup comes set at zero noise filtering by default.

    FWIW, I had false triggers from my dust collection. Way too much static buildup and discharge. Once I got it all grounded properly (dust collector, pvc pipe and flex hose), problem solved. Those limit switches can be pretty sensitive little buggers.

    Gary




  20. #60
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    Default Re: Mach 4 Users

    Debounce only applies to the parallel port. The ESS has it's own noise filtering.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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