FLA Saturn2 Build Specs Question

[GME]

FLA advertises that "every frame is: [b]uilt with an accuracy of .1mm." .1mm=about .0039". What does the quote mean? Accurate to .1mm over the total length, width and height? .1mm per mm? .1mm per inch? Per foot? Per meter? Without a reference unit of measure, .1mm seems like a meaningless number.

Usually, I see accuracy in terms of an instrument. My dial indicator my be accurate to .001. That I understand. Any number I read may be off by .001. My straight edges are accurate to .0002 in 12". That also makes sense. Neither of these examples explains a frame built with an accuracy of .1mm.

I got looking, and saw that CNCRP advertises that their 4 x 4 pro machine has an accuracy of + or - .005" or better. In the CNCRP context, it looks like they are describing cutting, not build, accuracy. Same question, though. Is it .005 in 1", 12", 36", 48? Without a reference unit, I don't know what that means.

Maybe this is some basic stuff that I should know already, but don't. Maybe not. Can anyone explain it for me????

Thank you,

Gary

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[ger21]

I would think that in the CNCRP case, they may mean repeatability. A machine accurate to .005" over the entire table would likely be a lot more expensive. I doubt that the gear rack is that accurate over 8+ft.

[GME]

I would think that in the CNCRP case, they may mean repeatability. A machine accurate to .005" over the entire table would likely be a lot more expensive. I doubt that the gear rack is that accurate over 8+ft.

Nope. CNCRP has a separate number for repeatability: .002". So, accuracy means something else. It would be nice if .005" accuracy meant over the entire table. Like you, I question whether that would be possible.

Okay, my question doesn't appear to be a stupid one, given that Gerry doesn't have the answer. Anyone else have thoughts on the subject?

Gary

[wmgeorge]

Nope. CNCRP has a separate number for repeatability: .002". So, accuracy means something else. It would be nice if .005" accuracy meant over the entire table. Like you, I question whether that would be possible.

Okay, my question doesn't appear to be a stupid one, given that Gerry doesn't have the answer. Anyone else have thoughts on the subject?

Gary

Seems like a question you should ask Nate at FLA.

[GME]

Seems like a question you should ask Nate at FLA.

Agreed. I just thought that the folks here may know. After all, like me, a good number of folks have purchased FLA machines of various sorts and read the same specs. Made sense that someone might have asked the question. I posted here, because the answer might have some general interest. I don't plan to pursue it. I've sourced the parts myself. and am building a custom machine, so the accuracy number, whatever it means, will not apply to me. However, someone else may want to follow up with Nate, or CNCRP (they use the same type of description) and educate us all.

Gary

[Ntl]

The way I read the Fineline at least seems to be describing the frame manufacturing. Obviously it's not even close to the advertisement. I'm posting a link describing the difference, weather the manufacturers are using the terms properly who knows. I think that a lot of it is just marketing and they know most guys who are buying them are new to CNC machining and won't know the difference (unless there's a problem). Here's the link :https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sour...48272887616969

[GME]

The way I read the Fineline at least seems to be describing the frame manufacturing. Obviously it's not even close to the advertisement. I'm posting a link describing the difference, weather the manufacturers are using the terms properly who knows. I think that a lot of it is just marketing and they know most guys who are buying them are new to CNC machining and won't know the difference (unless there's a problem). Here's the link :https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sour...48272887616969

Thank you for the link. Ok, if I read the article you linked to correctly, accuracy refers to how the machine does over the whole table. Your're right, Not even close to what's advertised. Puffing, words like 'super accurate', is one thing; putting out an exact number is something else.

Gary

[Ntl]

I took it as since they advertise they machine the holes, jig weld the frames, and stress relieve the frames that all the measurements have that accuracy. I obviously was wrong with how I read the specs or the specs are wrong. I would have to see for myself how the frame is manufactured.

Luckily for me my liniar rails are parallel and minus a little bit of a wave they seem to on plane as well.

Dan

[wmgeorge]

I took it as since they advertise they machine the holes, jig weld the frames, and stress relieve the frames that all the measurements have that accuracy. I obviously was wrong with how I read the specs or the specs are wrong. I would have to see for myself how the frame is manufactured.

Luckily for me my liniar rails are parallel and minus a little bit of a wave they seem to on plane as well.

Dan

Best news I’ve heard all day. Are there published specs on cnc routers? Like a review in a wood working magazine.

[Ntl]

Best news I’ve heard all day. Are there published specs on cnc routers? Like a review in a wood working magazine.

Not sure what you mean. The published specs I was referring to are on the Fineline website.

I personally am not a wood worker in the traditional sense, so I don't read or even know of any wood working publications.

I do however know fabrication and I know what happens to a welded frame that you don't control the amount of heat you put into the welding. I also know what happens if you don't fixture it properly or have the tube cut properly. And now after having my first CNC machine I know what happens when liniar rails aren't bolted to a flat parallel surface that is level.

Not trying to ruffle feathers just stating facts about advertised specs straight from the manufacturers website.

Dan

[wmgeorge]

Not sure what you mean. The published specs I was referring to are on the Fineline website.

I personally am not a wood worker in the traditional sense, so I don't read or even know of any wood working publications.

I do however know fabrication and I know what happens to a welded frame that you don't control the amount of heat you put into the welding. I also know what happens if you don't fixture it properly or have the tube cut properly. And now after having my first CNC machine I know what happens when liniar rails aren't bolted to a flat parallel surface that is level.

Not trying to ruffle feathers just stating facts about advertised specs straight from the manufacturers website.

Dan

No, what I meant is there like reviews in a woodworking magazine that compare CNC routers and the specs about how accurate they are? Be interesting to see how they compare or are specs like gas mileage claims?

Yes I have done my share of welding and fabrication in a home shop. I built a 3 point backhoe for my John Deere tractor in my first year of retirement. It worked fine, my son nearly wore it out before I got to use it down at the lake.

[Ntl]

Oh gotcha, I thought you were being sarcastic. The only reviews I saw prior to buying this one had the table top ones like the Axiom, Shark and I think the Laguna. I think it's honestly hard to get a unbiased review on most products since it's a pay to play type of game. At least that's how it works with aftermarket truck parts as well as the motocross industry. You usually have to be paying for advertising and or giving them products to get your products reviewed.

That's why I spent a lot of time on the forums reading reviews from real people who bought the equipment before I made my purchase. Unfortunately it seems like the quality fell of right at the time I bought my machine.

Thanks and I apologize for not understanding what you were saying.

Dan

[he1957]

The quote in post #6 by its wording is claiming the "frame" is built within 0.1 mm. If this same claim applies to all the different sizes of frames then the measurements of the _frame_ should be within this measurement for the various axes. To build a frame with this degree of precision is commendable but then spoil it with badly positioned or mis-aligned good quality parts is foolish. Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk and cut with an axe. Yep, good plan - not!

It would be interesting for two, three or four folks with the same makers model to compare their frame measurements to verify this claim.

The specs for the accuracy of a machines mechanical movement of say 0.03 mm is the minimum amount of movement the machine can make reliably between two points on the advertised axis.

The repeatability is the axis ability to return to a point of origin after having been moved a set distance to and from that origin. This is often expressed as a value (say 0.015 mm) over a certain distance (Note rounding). The "certain distance" is rarely published by a machine builder because of the advertising wars of competition so in order to make true comparisons one needs to look at the linear positioning system by a given manufacturer and look up their specs for the components used.

Take HiWin for example, their profile rails are manufactured in at least 3 different grades, each grade specifies the tolerances that can be measured over various distances. The same applies to the motion components, ball screws or R+P mechanics. The accuracy and repeatability of these positioning components needs to be combined with the other components used in the mechanical assembly. Example, a 5:1 ratio reduction gear set and/or belt drive set will be different to that of a 10:1 reduction set. These values can all be calculated and some can be fairly easily measured with a DTI or digital calipers if they have sufficient accuracy (and repeatability) for such measurement.