Need Help! Y axis (bridged axis) not repeatiing Mach 4


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Thread: Y axis (bridged axis) not repeatiing Mach 4

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    *Registered User* Jlitvak76's Avatar
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    Default Y axis (bridged axis) not repeatiing Mach 4

    Hi guys I'm at a loss here. I have a saturn 2 4x4 that I just finished building. I have a gecko 540 ESS smooth stepper usin rbe warp 9 plug in with nema 23 motors. My Y axis (I have it set using the bridge) steps off .04" with each pass around a rectangle. I have my steps per set to 1735 with a velocity of 400 and acceleration of 25. I've been beating my head against the wall for over a week now and I've thrown in the towel. Love the machine it's a brick! I just need to interact with it better.

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    Community Moderator difalkner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Y axis (bridged axis) not repeatiing Mach 4

    We have the very first Saturn 2x4, Nate's prototype, and it is definitely built like a brick! Are you saying the calibration is off by 0.04" or each pass is 0.04" off from the previous pass? How did you arrive at the 1735 steps? I'm not saying that's wrong, just curious what method you used for calibration.

    David

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    Default Re: Y axis (bridged axis) not repeatiing Mach 4

    I don't think your steps are right, I would need to go to my machine and check. I need to warm up the shop and when I get back from my Dr. appointment I will get for you. Right off hand yours seems way low.

    1000x750 Workbee CNC - Mach4 - PMDX USB - Windows 10 Pro


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    Default Re: Y axis (bridged axis) not repeatiing Mach 4

    If you have the FLA Saturn 2 with the rack and pinon drive and the gear drive as pictured on the website, which I have the same only mine is 4x4. I have NEMA 34 Steppers and yours are 23 so the ACC and Vec will be changed but the Steps should not. Mine is X & Y 2038 Steps Vec = 500 Acc = 50 the Z is at10160.Steps I forgot to get the rest for the Z.

    1000x750 Workbee CNC - Mach4 - PMDX USB - Windows 10 Pro


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    Community Moderator difalkner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Y axis (bridged axis) not repeatiing Mach 4

    If I recall correctly, the pulley size is different for NEMA 23 and 34 so the steps will be different. I could definitely be wrong but that's what's stuck in memory.

    David

    David
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    *Registered User* Jlitvak76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by difalkner View Post
    We have the very first Saturn 2x4, Nate's prototype, and it is definitely built like a brick! Are you saying the calibration is off by 0.04" or each pass is 0.04" off from the previous pass? How did you arrive at the 1735 steps? I'm not saying that's wrong, just curious what method you used for calibration.

    David
    David according to cnc router parts the steps per for a nema 23 ahould be 1736.237 when I zero out an indicator on a 1,2,3 block then move Y incrementally 1" to a stop I get zero so I'm sure that my steps are correct however when I run a loop moving back and forth 1" my indicator jumps to .005"



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    Default Re: Y axis (bridged axis) not repeatiing Mach 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Jlitvak76 View Post
    David according to cnc router parts the steps per for a nema 23 ahould be 1736.237 when I zero out an indicator on a 1,2,3 block then move Y incrementally 1" to a stop I get zero so I'm sure that my steps are correct however when I run a loop moving back and forth 1" my indicator jumps to .005"
    Well if you got your info off CNCRP then its correct. David can confirm the those settings. Guessing I would say your missing steps somehow and you can confirm that by slowing the machine from 400 to say 200 and run again. If that helps then maybe the machine is binding up on the travel. David is more than likely running a big job like I will be in a few minutes.

    1000x750 Workbee CNC - Mach4 - PMDX USB - Windows 10 Pro


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    Default Re: Y axis (bridged axis) not repeatiing Mach 4

    My Y steps are 2038.4123 and I have NEMA 34 steppers. I recall Nate telling me that they'll be different between 23 and 34. Also, when I thought my machine was calibrated as closely as possible in 1", 2" or so and then ran a Y test out to 48" I found it to be off over 1/4". When I finally got that perfect, or as close as I can measure, my 1" and 2" is virtually dead-on. So my suggestion is to do the greater distances and get that right.

    David

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    Default Re: Y axis (bridged axis) not repeatiing Mach 4

    Ok so Nate got back to me and helped me out however it still isn't correct I'm convinced at this point that my motor is missing steps. I finnally got my steps correct over 3" then moved to 6" and was off .02" and my numbers were significantly lower then Nates and I'm sure his numbers are spot on. Uhg



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    Default Re: Y axis (bridged axis) not repeatiing Mach 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Jlitvak76 View Post
    Ok so Nate got back to me and helped me out however it still isn't correct I'm convinced at this point that my motor is missing steps. I finnally got my steps correct over 3" then moved to 6" and was off .02" and my numbers were significantly lower then Nates and I'm sure his numbers are spot on. Uhg
    Are you using the pre wired Plug & Play control panel and motors that CNCRP supplies to Nate? If so the file I got from Nate did not work. Download the one from CNCRP and try that one. You do have 2 motors on the Y correct? One should be slaved.

    1000x750 Workbee CNC - Mach4 - PMDX USB - Windows 10 Pro


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    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    Are you using the pre wired Plug & Play control panel and motors that CNCRP supplies to Nate? If so the file I got from Nate did not work. Download the one from CNCRP and try that one. You do have 2 motors on the Y correct? One should be slaved.
    Yes I am using the plug and play unit. Is there a file formach 4?



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    Default Re: Y axis (bridged axis) not repeatiing Mach 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Jlitvak76 View Post
    Yes I am using the plug and play unit. Is there a file formach 4?

    I did not think the Plug and Play setup worked with Mach4? You have the pre-made wired control panel made by CNCRP? That could be your problem.

    1000x750 Workbee CNC - Mach4 - PMDX USB - Windows 10 Pro


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    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    I did not think the Plug and Play setup worked with Mach4? You have the pre-made wired control panel made by CNCRP? That could be your problem.
    I seriously hope it isn't. I bought the license ???????? Any idea if I can downgrade? I couldn't care less about the fancy screen. Code is code.



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    Ok maybe I'm off my rocker but I'm beginning to wonder if the 50 amp service that runs out to my detached garage may be causing my problems. I believe this because I used the steps per tool/wizard using 2 1,2,3 blocks clamped together along the 3" span and then stepped in and out until I had 0 on my best test .0005" indicator with my noga base fixed the the linear rail of the bridge. I then increased my span to 6" and found .02" right away. I have tripped the breaker out there tons of times using my table saw,router etc. it's just a theory but I thought id run it past you guys since my stepper motor experience spans about 3 weeks from today lol. I'm gonna pop and see Nate for a chat tomorrow evening and try to soak up some of his experience. Thanks you all for helping out also



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    Default Re: Y axis (bridged axis) not repeatiing Mach 4

    First I do not understand Bridge, are you meaning Slaved axis? My Y and I am assuming yours also has two motors. One Y and the other A or B I forget which that copies the Y.

    Accorded to the CNCRP website the Plug and Play NEMA 23 system uses different drivers than mine. They do not support Mach4 and none of their setup files or info do either. There are people on here using Mach4 but maybe not the same controller.

    As far as not being repeatable, it could be as simple as a loose pulley on a shaft, belt skipping a tooth or something else. When you reopen the setup file for the motor tuning have the values you entered and SAVED changed from last time? If you run the machine does the error become greater? Maybe the step setup needs to be fine tuned over say 24 or 36 inches?

    Could it be a power issue? Are the lights or power flickering, or dimming, have you put a good voltmeter on the line? Since the controller and stepper motors all run on regulated DC I don't think so, but anything can happen.

    Last edited by wmgeorge; 01-04-2019 at 09:00 AM.
    1000x750 Workbee CNC - Mach4 - PMDX USB - Windows 10 Pro


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    Default Re: Y axis (bridged axis) not repeatiing Mach 4

    I believe that the CNCRP plug and play control box will work with Mach4. No reason why it shouldn't, given that will run Mach3. It has the Warp9 Smoothstepper, which is where most of the Mach4 setup takes place. As I understand it, CNCRP just doesn't support Mach4. I've never heard why. I speculate that it's because Mach4 doesn't use XML config files (what Mach3 uses), and the setup has to be done manually. With a Smoothstepper, most of the Mach4 settings are done in the ESS Plugin. Makes sense that the CNCRP folks wouldn't want to have to go in and physically set up each control box. Setup mistakes happen, and diagnosis over the phone would require going tab by tab, line by line to check settings. That could be a nightmare. Easier to just make a downloadable XML file available for Mach3 and call it good.

    While most settings are in the ESS plugin, the motor settings are not. It works to look at the Mach3 XML files, because steps per, velocity, etc will be the same for both Mach3 and Mach4.

    None of this explains Jlitvaj76's problem. Checking pulleys, belts and drive gear tension all make sense. I'd also drop the drives and move the gantry by hand. Are there any sticky points? Any change in how the gantry feels while moving it? Does it take a lot of effort to move the gantry fore and aft? Something mechanical that would explain lost steps? I'm thinking this may be related to the same sort of issues I had with the Saturn 2 4 x 4 that I had to send back.

    Jlitvaj76, here is a link to my build thread. It will give you some mechanical things to look at. Some of the problems I detected could have caused the machine to lose steps, especially with NEMA 23s.

    https://www.cnczone.com/forums/finel...cnc-posts.html




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Y axis (bridged axis) not repeatiing Mach 4

Y axis (bridged axis) not repeatiing Mach 4