Air Cooled Spindle what Hp for the Saturn 2 4x4 ?

[difalkner]

I didn't actually use the IGUS cable. Mac (MacTec54) told me about it when he saw what I had bought. But I had already bought cable off eBay and used it with no issues. It's way too large but it's still pretty flexible. If I had it to do over I would get an IGUS product.

David

[mactec54]

I didn't actually use the IGUS cable. Mac (MacTec54) told me about it when he saw what I had bought. But I had already bought cable off eBay and used it with no issues. It's way too large but it's still pretty flexible. If I had it to do over I would get an IGUS product.

David

I have since done lots of testing on the different manufacturers cables IGUS cables, came out above most others and some where equal in performance, the Cheapest cable per foot that has all the requirements that are needed for VFD Drive use, and works very well is this IGUS CF6-15-04 for 2.2Kw VFD Drive to Spindle cable

There are many things to look at when choosing a cable like this

Diameter of the cable, this can be a big problem if using the spindle connectors plugs that come with these spindles

Flex rating

Amperage Rating

Voltage Rating ( must be a minimum of 600v Rated, higher voltage is better so is the Shield Rating, so sometimes you have to compromise a little to get the ideal cable )

Shield rating

The CF6 shield has a 90% optical and 600v rating Diameter .390" or 10mm cost $1-75 per foot ( The smaller diameter can make the difference to fitting your plug, but a compromise on the voltage Rating )

The CF31 shield has around 90% optical, and 1000v rating Diameter .410" or 10.5mm cost $2-76 per foot ( If it fits your Plug then this is the Best Cable to have )

The CF 896 shield has a 60% optical and a 1000v Rating Diameter .350 or 9mm cost $1-80 per foot ( Low Shield coverage is to much compared to the other ( 2 ) cables here not an Ideal cable for good shielding )

[mactec54]

I got mine from Automation Direct it’s awesome VFD cable here’s the link.


https://www.automationdirect.com/adc...e/vfdc-16-4b-1

This is a double shielded cable very good cable for a non moving cable, the aluminum foil is not suitable for a flexing cable after a short time of use the aluminum foil cracks from all the flexing of the cable, so not a good choice of cable when flexing is involved

[DDgitfiddle]

Since the spindle I am considering is only 2.2 Kw and 8 amps I might go with this one instead WJ200-015SF
https://www.driveswarehouse.com/hita...p_230v_1_phase

As others have said, I would also go with the -022SF. That is what I am using with my 2.2 kw air cooled spindle.

I also want to correct a misconception about the frequency control I am using. It is not PWM. PWM changes the width of the on-time of a pulse using a constant pulse frequency. What I am using is a variable frequency using constant pulse width. The WJ200 acceptsa 24V signal up to 32kHz on the pulse train. There are settings that allow you to configure what speed corresponds to which frequency. It took a little fiddling to figure out the settings because the Hitachi manual is mind-boggling with options. The benefit is that the 24V signal is more noise immune than the 0-10V analog signal.

The caveat here for wmgeorge is that I built my own control panel using a UCCNC controller similar to what ger21 mentioned. I don’t know if this method will work with Mach 3. UCCNC specifically has a frequency output option for the spindle.

-Robert

[Ntl]

This is a double shielded cable very good cable for a non moving cable, the aluminum foil is not suitable for a flexing cable after a short time of use the aluminum foil cracks from all the flexing of the cable, so not a good choice of cable when flexing is involved

What other kind of shield is there other than foil and braided which this cable has both as well as it being extremely flexible? I’m just curious where you got your information from about this VFD cable? Have you ever used it? I’m not sure why Automationdirect’s tech support would sell me something that won’t work for my application and why a guy who works for a cnc electronics company would suggest using it if it’s not suitable for a cnc router. It’s not cheap cable and I would love to know why it isn’t right for the application. So I can contact the company and tell them that a cable expert on a forum told me they sold me the wrong cable for my application. Let me know so I can call them on Monday and tell them that their technicians don’t know what they’re talking about and they sold me the wrong cable.

Thanks,
Dan

[DDgitfiddle]

What other kind of shield is there other than foil and braided which this cable has both as well as it being extremely flexible? I’m just curious where you got your information from about this VFD cable? Have you ever used it? I’m not sure why Automationdirect’s tech support would sell me something that won’t work for my application and why a guy who works for a cnc electronics company would suggest using it if it’s not suitable for a cnc router. It’s not cheap cable and I would love to know why it isn’t right for the application. So I can contact the company and tell them that a cable expert on a forum told me they sold me the wrong cable for my application. Let me know so I can call them on Monday and tell them that their technicians don’t know what they’re talking about and they sold me the wrong cable.

Thanks,
Dan

I agree with mactec54 that the igus cable is better suited in this application. There are two things that I see that are different: 1) The igus cable has a much smaller minimum bend radius, which is a good indicator. 2) The foil shield will have to stretch and wrinkle slightly to make the bend. Over time, this will cause cracks in the foil shield, reducing its effectiveness. The braided shield does OK because the individual wires can move slightly as the cable bends and straightens. The smaller minimum bend radius also indicates to me that it will require less force to bend the cable. That force is applied by the cable chain on the outer jacket of the cable, so the extra force will tend to wear out the jacket faster.

I'm not familiar with everything that AutomationDirect sells, so this may just be the "best" that they sell for this application. I have nothing against them as a seller...I bought most of my cables from them, along with alot of other stuff, just not my spindle cable. I used the igus CF6-25-4 (14 ga version), and it is very nice, flexible, and reasonably priced. I designed automation and robotics for a living for many years, and I have used igus products for many different things. Their cables are some of the best in the industry.

[wmgeorge]

Its not aluminum foil like you get off a roll for kitchen cooking its a special flexible cable designed for what it was sold for and it was sold by people who supply the CNC Industry. If it did crack the drain or grounding wire goes the entire length so its still covered. I have not decided which one to go with yet.

Oh gee whiz it looks like the Automation Direct has the same dual shielding so either one will work.

"VFD cable, 4 conductors (includes ground), 16 AWG, cross linked polyethylene (XLPE) conductor insulation material, overall foil and braid shielded, TPE jacket, black, cut to length."

https://www.automationdirect.com/adc...4b-1#btn-bar-a

[wmgeorge]

One more question before I go out to re-install a rear sight on my 1918 Remington Enfield (30-06) rifle.

I know the Hitachi series of drives have a NEMA 1 rating and appear to have a aluminum or metal back plane, does the HY or one like this have a NEMA rating or any metal at all in the construction?
This one> https://www.automationtechnologiesin...ndle/kl-vfd22/

[Ntl]

One more question before I go out to re-install a rear sight on my 1918 Remington Enfield (30-06) rifle.

I know the Hitachi series of drives have a NEMA 1 rating and appear to have a aluminum or metal back plane, does the HY or one like this have a NEMA rating or any metal at all in the construction?
This one> https://www.automationtechnologiesin...ndle/kl-vfd22/

No the Huanyang doesn’t have what looks like heatsink? The case is all plastic, I recently noticed that as well since I didn’t know about the Hitachi until after I already had my Huanyang. I don’t know if there’s that much of a difference between the two, but I would assume that the Hitachi is going to last longer and work better. If I had to do it over again I would of spent the extra dough on the Hitachi for the piece of mind at the bare minimum.

Dan

[wmgeorge]

Thanks Dan, that helps a lot. Probably going to go the Hitachi route just because I have used them before and they have a NEMA rated enclosure.


Got my Rear sight on, somebody in the past hundred years had added on a Lyman rear peep and a very nice front sight. Lyman had the parts to repair!! I hope to get some time this week to go out to the range and attempt to sight in.

[Ntl]

I agree with mactec54 that the igus cable is better suited in this application. There are two things that I see that are different: 1) The igus cable has a much smaller minimum bend radius, which is a good indicator. 2) The foil shield will have to stretch and wrinkle slightly to make the bend. Over time, this will cause cracks in the foil shield, reducing its effectiveness. The braided shield does OK because the individual wires can move slightly as the cable bends and straightens. The smaller minimum bend radius also indicates to me that it will require less force to bend the cable. That force is applied by the cable chain on the outer jacket of the cable, so the extra force will tend to wear out the jacket faster.

I'm not familiar with everything that AutomationDirect sells, so this may just be the "best" that they sell for this application. I have nothing against them as a seller...I bought most of my cables from them, along with alot of other stuff, just not my spindle cable. I used the igus CF6-25-4 (14 ga version), and it is very nice, flexible, and reasonably priced. I designed automation and robotics for a living for many years, and I have used igus products for many different things. Their cables are some of the best in the industry.

You and the other dude need to re-read the specs. The two Igus cables that were mentioned have a 5.3 and 6.97 minimum bend radius where the Automation Direct cable has a 6” minimum bend radius. The cable chain that comes with the Saturn has a 75mm (2.95”) bend radius. My cable chains with all the wiring and water lines installed have a 5.5-7” bend radius depending on the location so I’m really not that worried about. I honestly can’t believe I spent this much time researching it and calculating my bend radius since professionals who deal with this stuff every day for a living already told me I’m GTD with this cable. I’m curious what it’s like when you guys go shopping for a new car, you’re heads must explode lol.

Dan

[Ntl]

Thanks Dan, that helps a lot. Probably going to go the Hitachi route just because I have used them before and they have a NEMA rated enclosure.


Got my front sight on, somebody in the past hundred years had added on a Lyman rear peep and a very nice front sight. Lyman had the parts to repair!! I hope to get some time this week to go out to the range and attempt to sight in.

No problem, and have fun shooting!!! I’m jealous I haven’t gone in a long time.

[wmgeorge]

And I ordered the Hitachi WJ200-022SF per the advice here. Thanks guys.... again.

[ger21]

A little late, but yes, the Huanyang has a metal back plate, and a fan that runs continuously and moves a lot of air through it.

[Ntl]

A little late, but yes, the Huanyang has a metal back plate, and a fan that runs continuously and moves a lot of air through it.

The whole body on mine is plastic and it’s only a month or so old.

Maybe the older ones are metal?

Here’s a picture so there’s no argument about them not being plastic. I even took the picture of the side the Huanyang label is on so I don’t get the “it’s not genuine” comment. I can assure you it is a genuine Huanyang I made sure it was real before I bought it, it didn’t come from Ebay it was from Amazon from a factory dealer.

[Ntl]

And I ordered the Hitachi WJ200-022SF per the advice here. Thanks guys.... again.

Nice post pictures of it I’m probably going to get one down the road since I don’t know how long mine will last.

Thanks,
Dan

[ger21]

I may be mistaken, but I thought there was metal under the plastic, which the ground screws are attached to? Mines bolted to a test board, so I can't look at the back side of it right now.

[difalkner]

Nice post pictures of it I’m probably going to get one down the road since I don’t know how long mine will last.

Thanks,
Dan

Here's what ours looks like (during the build process) -





David

[mactec54]

No the Huanyang doesn’t have what looks like heatsink? The case is all plastic, I recently noticed that as well since I didn’t know about the Hitachi until after I already had my Huanyang. I don’t know if there’s that much of a difference between the two, but I would assume that the Hitachi is going to last longer and work better. If I had to do it over again I would of spent the extra dough on the Hitachi for the piece of mind at the bare minimum.

Dan

All the Huanyang do have a Heatsink, the lower rated Kw drives, the plastic covers hide the Heatsink, the input power supply Ground connects to the Heatsink, the larger capacity and different models Huanyang drives you can see the Heatsink like the snip below

[wmgeorge]

I think the metal heat sink would depend less on fan cooling as its bolted directly onto either a metal enclosure or back plate. That is one reason I went with the Hitachi. Not saying the other would not of worked because it does. Its just a me thing, I tend to use what I have in the past.