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    Default Pre-Build Thread

    Hello all. I'm posting this as a "pre-build" thread as I still have to firm up some arrangements with Nate from FLA but I am going to be treating myself to a Saturn 2 4x4 w/ Nema 34 mounts. All of the main components I have already ordered and have started rolling in as of today. I will list them below and maybe get some feedback on them. I'm very excited and can't wait to start the assembly process. Now that the parts are ordered, I'm focused on building a bench for this monster. I currently have and built an OpenBuilds C-Beam Machine XLarge. Great machine but it didn't take me long to outgrow it. I find myself constantly limited by the available work area. Anyway, without further due, here are the components I've ordered:

    Nema 34 8.5Nm closed loop steppers x4
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hot-...18e14c4deLHunU

    3KW Spindle and VFD w/ pump
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3KW-...18e14c4deLHunU

    60v 12a Switching PSU x2
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Univ...18e14c4deLHunU

    14mm 20 tooth pulleys w/ 5mm keyway x3
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SUMR...18e14c4deLHunU

    14mm w/ keyway to 1/2" coupler
    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1pcs...18e14c4deLHunU

    Of course there are a few other odds and ends, such as an Ethernet SmoothStepper, the FootMaster leveling castors for the bench, stepper motor wire ect. I am also going to repurpose an ATX PC computer power supply for the 5v and 12v power. I am planning on running the entire machine from 220v single phase which I have in my shop. I'm planning the bench to be made from 2x6 lumber and will post a design pic from Fusion360 when I'm happy with it.


    Feedback is welcome!


    Thanks

    Leon

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    Default Re: Pre-Build Thread

    #1 I have the same machine, and its very heavy. Rethink your bench because its not a bench top machine. Someone on here and he has just posted it, built one from steel and welded. I ordered the factory stand and its some assy required but its beefy and also has combo levering feet casters.

    #2 NEMA 34 mounts? Are those the rack and pinion gear drive?

    #3 All your order is from China, I am hoping it all works for you. You can source good motors from USA Venders and have a warranty. But they look very nice, the ones you ordered.

    #4 Your switching dual power supply from your computer is more than likely not going to work. Those NEMA 34 motors and you need 4 of them powered at one time on some jobs will need some serious amps. I have 2 power supplies that are 48 volt and rated at 600 watts each or 12.5 amps each. I have the same machine but ordered prewired control panel and it all works fine from 120 volts. Save your 220 for your dust collector!!

    Plug and Play NEMA 34 CNC Control System - CRP800-00E-8 | CNCRouterParts

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    Default Re: Pre-Build Thread

    Hi there wmgeorge. Thanks for your reply. I'll respond to your points to give a better idea of what's in my noggin.

    #1 Yes, much thought is going into this part. The factory stand that you have looks great but it's just not in the cards, however I did pick up what looks to be the same leveling castors that yours has. They support 550lbs each. I believe that I can come up with a stand design from lumber that will be quite sturdy. I've seen others posted here and will be drawing from them for ideas.

    #2 I'm ordering the Saturn without electronics but with Nema 34 mounts for the R&P kit. The pulleys that I have listed are for 14mm shafts on the steppers rather than the 1/2" ones that come with the Saturn for the belt pulley.

    #3 Yes I'm aware of the and I'm crossing my fingers a bit on that. I usually have pretty good luck with China orders. These stepper motors come with drivers and encoders.

    #4 As for power, I've actually ordered 2 of those 60v power supplies @ 12 amps each. I figured 6a per stepper should be fine with 2 motors per power supply. The decision to run 220v for the whole thing is really just to simplify. I have a 60 amp sub panel in the garage with nothing running off it except a wall heater, so I have a fair bit of headroom for the machine and a 220v dust collector that a good friend gave me. Even the PC which will be running Mach3 can run on 220v.

    ...lol ... ok... now I understand... I just scrolled up and realized that you thought I planned on running the whole thing from the PC power supply. Nope; I will be using the PC power supply for the 12v and 5v for power to the limit sensors, smoothstepper and breakout boards, nothing else.

    Last edited by wackocrash5150; 09-24-2018 at 02:47 PM.


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    Default Re: Pre-Build Thread

    Looking forward to the build! I built our stand out of 2x4's and it has held up quite nicely for the last two years. Our Saturn is a 2x4 but it's still heavy and we've seen no issues coming from the wooden stand.

    David

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    Default Re: Pre-Build Thread

    Those PS should be fine, sorry I did think you were going to repurpose a computer one. I do like those motors however, looks like the best of both worlds!!

    Davids machine has the aluminum gantry, ours has the welded steel and his machine is only 2x4 instead of 4x4. This machine is heavy. I would use 4x4 legs and 2x6 cross braces bolted together. When the machine is running it generates some hefty movement.

    Last edited by wmgeorge; 09-24-2018 at 08:16 PM.
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    Default Re: Pre-Build Thread

    Yes, ours has the aluminum gantry. I can almost pick the entire 2x4 machine up by myself...

    David

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    Default Re: Pre-Build Thread

    Getting very excited. Worked out a few more details with Nate this morning.
    For the stand I'm thinking some 4x4s or even 6x6s for the legs and some 2x6s for the rest. Might be overkill but I imagine that the steel gantry has a fair bit of momentum when it gets moving. I'm guessing that the steppers I picked out should be ok as everyone likes the Nema 34s from CNCRP which are 6.7 N.m and the ones I have coming are 8.5 N.m.



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    Default Re: Pre-Build Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by wackocrash5150 View Post
    Getting very excited. Worked out a few more details with Nate this morning.
    For the stand I'm thinking some 4x4s or even 6x6s for the legs and some 2x6s for the rest. Might be overkill but I imagine that the steel gantry has a fair bit of momentum when it gets moving. I'm guessing that the steppers I picked out should be ok as everyone likes the Nema 34s from CNCRP which are 6.7 N.m and the ones I have coming are 8.5 N.m.
    I love my machine, had a couple of things to solve but its built really very well. I ran my log project yesterday and it was great to have all that Z clearance. Pictures of the project posted here in another Thread. Heck I did my first paying job before I even had the table on!

    1000x750 Workbee CNC - Mach4 - PMDX USB - Windows 10 Pro


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    Default Re: Pre-Build Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    I love my machine, had a couple of things to solve but its built really very well. I ran my log project yesterday and it was great to have all that Z clearance. Pictures of the project posted here in another Thread. Heck I did my first paying job before I even had the table on!
    Nice! I'd love to see those pics. Can you paste a link to the thread? (I looked but couldn't find it)

    Silly question to all those that have one of these machines. If I understand correctly, this machine is loosely based on the CNCRP PRO4848 but of course with a welded steel frame? Am I also correct in assuming that when see a neat video of the PRO4848, that the Saturn 2 will be a minimum of what I see?

    I've already got a project in mind. I've always wanted to build a bartop arcade machine but my other cnc is too limited in work area. I will be building them from melamine particle board for a nice finish. Should I expect a single pass with a compression bit on the configuration I'm setting up? I have a few other people quite interested in this project as well. It might be a good way to start recouping some of the machine cost.


    Edit: I found the post. Nicely done!

    Last edited by wackocrash5150; 09-25-2018 at 12:44 PM.


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    Default Re: Pre-Build Thread

    As far as I can tell is pretty much the same only better than the aluminum frame construction. Nate does it right. If you look through my build Thread you will see some minor issues. I call them learning moments.

    My goal was to have a raw split log and do a 3D carving (sort of 3D) in the face with some engraving as needing. However the log I picked to try out was not the best!!

    1000x750 Workbee CNC - Mach4 - PMDX USB - Windows 10 Pro


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    Default Re: Pre-Build Thread

    Random thought: What kind of cable do I need to get to go from the 3kw VFD to the 3kw spindle? Where can I get one at a reasonable price? A quick look tells me 4 conductor shielded.



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    Default Re: Pre-Build Thread

    While I found out about this cable after I bought mine, if I had it to do over I would probably get the Igus Chainflex cable.

    David

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    Default Re: Pre-Build Thread

    I'm guessing that the steppers I picked out should be ok as everyone likes the Nema 34s from CNCRP which are 6.7 N.m and the ones I have coming are 8.5 N.m.
    I'm not familiar with how those closed loop steppers perform, but when talking about standard open loop steppers, bigger is not always better. Typically, the bigger the motor, the slower their top speed will be.




    Should I expect a single pass with a compression bit on the configuration I'm setting up?

    Sure, but the speed you'll be able to cut at will be dictated by spindle power first, and stepper power second. Workholding 3rd.

    Gerry

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    Default Re: Pre-Build Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by difalkner View Post
    Yes, ours has the aluminum gantry. I can almost pick the entire 2x4 machine up by myself...

    David
    David is stronger than the average man, though. It took me three people to lift my 4x2 onto the base, and that was AFTER I removed my aluminum gantry. I can lift the gantry myself with the Z-axis attached, but it is cumbersome. I also built a wood frame, but I used 2x12 lumber for cross beams and put diagonals in to keep it from flexing. 4x4 legs is a good idea, but I used some left over Glu-Lam lumber I had lying around to make L cross section legs. A steel frame would be nice, but the Fineline one was not available when I purchased, and I am not lifting that machine off it's base again unless I move to a new house.

    I had bad luck with Chinese knock-offs of the Footmaster casters. Made my machine shake like a dashboard hula dancer. I use heavy duty leveling feet now and will buy some little dollies to move the machine if I ever need to.

    Good Luck!

    -Robert



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    Default Re: Pre-Build Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by difalkner View Post
    While I found out about this cable after I bought mine, if I had it to do over I would probably get the Igus Chainflex cable.

    David
    I second the Igus Chainflex. I used the CF6-25-04 version for my 2.2kW spindle. Nicely flexible and about as narrow as you will find for this wire gauge.

    Remember to check to see if your spindle ground pin is connected to anything. They often are not on the Chinese spindles.

    -Robert



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    Default Re: Pre-Build Thread

    If I'm mounting the VFD enclosure under the stand somewhere, what do you guys figure i'd need in length? 12 ft cover it with all the cable chain?



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    Default Re: Pre-Build Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by DDgitfiddle View Post

    I had bad luck with Chinese knock-offs of the Footmaster casters. Made my machine shake like a dashboard hula dancer. I use heavy duty leveling feet now and will buy some little dollies to move the machine if I ever need to.

    -Robert
    The ones I picked up I believe are genuine. Picked them up on Amazon Prime. Hopefully they're be all good for what I paid for them.



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    Default Re: Pre-Build Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by wackocrash5150 View Post
    If I'm mounting the VFD enclosure under the stand somewhere, what do you guys figure i'd need in length? 12 ft cover it with all the cable chain?
    Take a piece of string and run it along the path you expect to run the shielded cable. Then add at least 3', preferably 5'. I found a shielded cable on eBay and seems like it was 20' long, don't really remember. But when I ran it from the spindle and along the cable chains to my enclosure and cut it, after triple checking the length, I had far less remaining than I thought I would. And our machine is only a 2x4.

    David

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    Default Re: Pre-Build Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by difalkner View Post
    While I found out about this cable after I bought mine, if I had it to do over I would probably get the Igus Chainflex cable.

    David

    I bought the Igus cable for my spindle/VFD. The diameter seemed thinner than some for the same wire size, which is a good thing. It has done a good job of keeping noise down and seems like professional, high quality stuff. It would be my choice, if I needed to buy it again.

    Gary




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    Quote Originally Posted by difalkner View Post
    Take a piece of string and run it along the path you expect to run the shielded cable. Then add at least 3', preferably 5'. I found a shielded cable on eBay and seems like it was 20' long, don't really remember. But when I ran it from the spindle and along the cable chains to my enclosure and cut it, after triple checking the length, I had far less remaining than I thought I would. And our machine is only a 2x4.

    David
    I got mine from Automation Direct and it was a 20’ length. I’m very impressed by the quality of their VFD cable. I ordered 16-4 and it’s super flexible. Here’s the link of what I got https://www.automationdirect.com/pn/VFDC-16-4B-1



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