New 2x4 Saturn build

[Ntl]

I was just checking it out, is the mount really 2”x2”? If so it would be perfect for covering the hole I drilled out.

Thanks,
Dan

[GME]

I was just checking it out, is the mount really 2”x2”? If so it would be perfect for covering the hole I drilled out.

Thanks,
Dan

Dan,

Not even close to that size. Much smaller. The hole size is the same as an XLR connector. I used a 15/16" Greenlee chassis punch to make the main hole, and then drilled the screw mounting holes. 15/16" gave a good fit. A 24mm punch would work as well.

I used XLR connectors for all of my panel connections, including my limit sensors. That way, I only needed one punch to do it all. As you probably already know, chassis punches are pretty expensive. I suppose you could use a step drill, but there would some burr cleanup do deal with.

Gary

[Ntl]

Dan,

Not even close to that size. Much smaller. The hole size is the same as an XLR connector. I used a 15/16" Greenlee chassis punch to make the main hole, and then drilled the screw mounting holes. 15/16" gave a good fit. A 24mm punch would work as well.

I used XLR connectors for all of my panel connections, including my limit sensors. That way, I only needed one punch to do it all. As you probably already know, chassis punches are pretty expensive. I suppose you could use a step drill, but there would some burr cleanup do deal with.

Gary

Ok cool thank you again.

[Ntl]

Very nice Dan. Looks clean.
That RJ45 cable is worrying me though. Might not take well to a tug on the cable.

Cheap solution I used.:

Just an FYI.

Jack.

Thanks again I’m going to order one of the 90 degree adapters and the plugs that GME suggested since they seem more industrial and are about the same price as the plastic ones.

Dan

[wmgeorge]

I just used some Velco straps to hold against the stand or table leg.

[Ntl]

I just used some Velco straps to hold against the stand or table leg.

Are you talking about for the Ethernet cable? If I’m feeling ambitious I might bend up some conduit so there’s no chance of it getting damaged, we’ll see when I get to that point lol. I got my pc mounted up under the table and the new wider cable track mounted yesterday.

[DDgitfiddle]

The build is looking nice!

Your picture brought up a question, especially in light of the bearing binding problem you mentioned. You have a 4x2 system, and the gantry is supported by an aluminum "L" bracket and an aluminum brace. This is very similar to my system, only I have the extruded aluminum gantry. A few other folks with the 4x4 machines have a welded-on bracket instead. I wonder why Nate did this differently? Maybe just part of a running change?

[Ntl]

The build is looking nice!

Your picture brought up a question, especially in light of the bearing binding problem you mentioned. You have a 4x2 system, and the gantry is supported by an aluminum "L" bracket and an aluminum brace. This is very similar to my system, only I have the extruded aluminum gantry. A few other folks with the 4x4 machines have a welded-on bracket instead. I wonder why Nate did this differently? Maybe just part of a running change?

Yeah I wondered the same thing when he sent me a picture of the machine. I’m starting to wish mine had the aluminum extruded gantry since it would have a much tighter tolerance as well as much more adjustment if there was a problem with it not being square. I’m still waiting for him to get back to me for suggestions on fixing the problem short of taking it to the machine shop to have it surfaced. He said he was going to call me last Wednesday but never did and is back to not responding. I’m not sure what his deal is on getting back to us since he doesn’t have a problem depositing our money. It’s working my last nerve since the router wasn’t cheap. I understand it has a lot of value if it works, but if it isn’t reliable I don’t care how well built it appears to be. I’m thinking I must have gotten a lemon since there’s no way guys that have had them for over a year and running them frequently are having this problem. I even saw one guy who said his will run on one motor no way with mine, it’s super tight just trying to push it without the motors installed. I’m at a loss to what’s going on with mine if it’s not the steel tube being tweaked.

Dan

[GME]

Yeah I wondered the same thing when he sent me a picture of the machine. I’m starting to wish mine had the aluminum extruded gantry since it would have a much tighter tolerance as well as much more adjustment if there was a problem with it not being square. I’m still waiting for him to get back to me for suggestions on fixing the problem short of taking it to the machine shop to have it surfaced. He said he was going to call me last Wednesday but never did and is back to not responding. I’m not sure what his deal is on getting back to us since he doesn’t have a problem depositing our money. It’s working my last nerve since the router wasn’t cheap. I understand it has a lot of value if it works, but if it isn’t reliable I don’t care how well built it appears to be. I’m thinking I must have gotten a lemon since there’s no way guys that have had them for over a year and running them frequently are having this problem. I even saw one guy who said his will run on one motor no way with mine, it’s super tight just trying to push it without the motors installed. I’m at a loss to what’s going on with mine if it’s not the steel tube being tweaked.

Dan

I've been giving some additional thought to binding issue with the Y axes. Although your gantry has the bracket and brace (vs the 4x4's welded base), you may still have a problem similar to PLJack's as discussed in his long running thread. The issue comes up around here or the next page: https://www.cnczone.com/forums/finel...-forum-10.html.

I currently have an FLA 4x4 (the 80/20 kit) with an upgraded 3"x6" gantry beam. It attaches like yours - 4 bolts under the gantry and a piece of angle and a 45 degree brace mounted to the front of the gantry beam and to the top of the aluminum plate bolted to the linear bearing blocks. Anyway, when I was putting my machine together, I noticed that the L-bracket was not an exact 90 deg. I wasn't particularly surprised - I don't recall every having bought a piece of aluminum angle that had a perfect 90 degree angle. Mostly, they are pretty far off. Whether it's more or less than 90 deg, tightening bolts down could put the bearing blocks in a bind. I don't know about the angle brace. At the time, I didn't take a precise measure of the brace for angle accuracy. However, if it's off, it could add to, or cause, the bind. I'm thinking that if the brace angles are off, you could adjust out the bind with shims. My first diagnostic step would be to check to ensure the angle supports are an exact 90.

Next, I suggest loosening up everything, then snugging down the 4 bolts under each side of the gantry, and see how the gantry moves with the steppers dropped. If it runs smoothly, tighten down the bolts, and check it again. If the bind returns, then you are probably right in concluding the gantry is tweaked. Still, shims would probably fill any gap that a tweak would necessarily cause.

If the gantry runs smoothly, the problem may well be with the additional bracing. I would then tighten down the L-brackets and see what happens. If the bind returns, you may have your culprit. If it's still smooth, then the problem is probably with the outer angle brace.

BTW, the 80/20 extrusion gantry doesn't leave all that much gantry adjustability for squaring. None of the holes were particularly oversized and none were slotted; I could only adjust it by several thousands. It was probably partially my fault, though. I used connectors in the t-slots like these:
'
and maybe should have used these:



The bottom fastener would have allowed more adjustability, had I drilled out the holes in the L brackets and braces. Note: I don't recall what was sent with the kit. I had both fasteners on hand (I use a lot of 80/20) and thought the top one would provide more rigid support.

Gary

[Ntl]

I've been giving some additional thought to binding issue with the Y axes. Although your gantry has the bracket and brace (vs the 4x4's welded base), you may still have a problem similar to PLJack's as discussed in his long running thread. The issue comes up around here or the next page: https://www.cnczone.com/forums/finel...-forum-10.html.

I currently have an FLA 4x4 (the 80/20 kit) with an upgraded 3"x6" gantry beam. It attaches like yours - 4 bolts under the gantry and a piece of angle and a 45 degree brace mounted to the front of the gantry beam and to the top of the aluminum plate bolted to the linear bearing blocks. Anyway, when I was putting my machine together, I noticed that the L-bracket was not an exact 90 deg. I wasn't particularly surprised - I don't recall every having bought a piece of aluminum angle that had a perfect 90 degree angle. Mostly, they are pretty far off. Whether it's more or less than 90 deg, tightening bolts down could put the bearing blocks in a bind. I don't know about the angle brace. At the time, I didn't take a precise measure of the brace for angle accuracy. However, if it's off, it could add to, or cause, the bind. I'm thinking that if the brace angles are off, you could adjust out the bind with shims. My first diagnostic step would be to check to ensure the angle supports are an exact 90.

Next, I suggest loosening up everything, then snugging down the 4 bolts under each side of the gantry, and see how the gantry moves with the steppers dropped. If it runs smoothly, tighten down the bolts, and check it again. If the bind returns, then you [FONT="]are probably right in concluding the gantry is tweaked. Still, shims would probably fill any gap that a tweak would necessarily cause.

[/FONT]If the gantry runs smoothly, the problem may well be with the additional bracing. I would then tighten down the L-brackets and see what happens. If the bind returns, you may have your culprit. If it's still smooth, then the problem is probably with the outer angle brace.

BTW, the 80/20 extrusion gantry doesn't leave all that much gantry adjustability for squaring. None of the holes were particularly oversized and none were slotted; I could only adjust it by several thousands. It was probably partially my fault, though. I used connectors in the t-slots like these:
'
and maybe should have used these:



The bottom fastener would have allowed more adjustability, had I drilled out the holes in the L brackets and braces. Note: I don't recall what was sent with the kit. I had both fasteners on hand (I use a lot of 80/20) and thought the top one would provide more rigid support.

Gary

Thanks a lot for the helpful information and taking the time to let me know about the old style gantry. I already did what you had mentioned above and It seems to be a combination of all of it being just enough off to cause it to bind up. If I loosen up the the braces and tighten the bottom bolts all the way it binds. If I leave the bottom bolts to where they are just snug and I can still see a little day light between the steel beam and the aluminum base plate it’s smooth. If I tighten the braces all the way it binds again, if I just snug them up it’s smooth again. So basically I have everything just a tick over finger tight and I have no binding and the gantry moves smoothly. I’m going to run it like this and see if I have any accuracy issues once I start cutting. I think you’re right that the short term fix will be to try and shim everything so I can torque the bolts down. I’m worried that once there’s some cutting force on the gantry it’s going to shift out of alignment and mess up some parts.

I’ll check out the post you put a link to and see what he did to fix the problem, if it’s the one I think it is you are correct that it’s a very similar problem I’m dealing with.

Thanks again for the help and suggestions,

Dan

[Ntl]

FWIW, I used Neutrik connectors. They don't use the plastic tab to lock in. They use the metal tab for locking, and have strain relief on the cable vs. the plastic connector. These connectors match the other connectors I used in my build.

Panel Mount: https://www.amazon.com/Neutrik-NE8FD...8-6&ref=sr_1_6

Cable Connector Plug: https://www.amazon.com/Neutrik-NE8MC...8-8&ref=sr_1_8

Gary

Got them in today, thanks again

[Ntl]

First test with initial settings on the y axis, still need to check the x and the z but it looks pretty damn good from setting it up with math.

[wmgeorge]

Very nice, and I like the Screen display very usable.

[difalkner]

I agree, looks nice. Switch to a V-bit with a sharp point, though. Much easier to see against the ruler.

David

[Ntl]

I agree, looks nice. Switch to a V-bit with a sharp point, though. Much easier to see against the ruler.

David

Thanks and I don’t have any collets or bits yet, just the .25” collet the spindle came with so I just threw a .25” drill bit in it. I’m going to use a sharpened tungsten from my tig welder since I don’t have a dial indicator yet. It should get me close enough I think for now.

Thanks again,
Dan

[Ntl]

Very nice, and I like the Screen display very usable.

Thanks and so far I really like CNC12, it’s simple and very professional. It was also very straight forward to set up even for someone like me who has never done it before. Those are some of the reasons I went with Centroid Acorn for my router. I also just got the new relay board today they just released. They’re doing a fantastic job expanding and fine tuning the controller. Just finishing up my proximity sensors then I need to get all the cooling done. I’m starting to see some light at the end of the tunnel finally.

Thanks again,
Dan

[wmgeorge]

I got a set of Inch marked collets off Amazon, Silivn brand and I assume China. They look ok, But have not used yet so that will be the test. I think they were $27 to my door.

[ger21]

Since in most cases, you'll only use 3 or 4 different sizes, I prefer quality collets. I use Teckniks, which are about $15 each.

[Ntl]

Thanks guys I’ll check those out, I still need to read some more for a good starting point for my tooling. I know it gets expensive in a hurry.

Thanks again,

Dan

[GME]

Since in most cases, you'll only use 3 or 4 different sizes, I prefer quality collets. I use Teckniks, which are about $15 each.

+1 on Teckniks collets.