New 2x4 Saturn build

[Ntl]

At 18 seconds it appears your spindle is at its lowest point of travel and I'm wondering if something isn't set correctly. Granted, we have the early Saturn but the travel for the collet nut is below the spoilboard. On yours I don't see how you'll even reach the spoilboard. Or am I missing something...?

David

Right now my spindle is all the way up in the mount I don’t have any tooling yet and Nate said it doesn’t need to be super far into the mount since you will just lose rigidity. Once I get some bits I will adjust the spindle so that my shortest bit will work. I have no need for it to go any lower than my tooling needs since I’m not cutting anything off the table. With how it’s currently mounted there’s about 4 inches from the bottom of the spindle to the top of the MDF when the Z axis is at 0.

For now since as you can see I have a bunch of stuff on the table I wanted it up out of the way. I have 7’ of cable and water line under the table and I will cut it down once I know the final spindle hight and leave some extra just in case. Once everything is done I’m sure my setup will make sense to everyone. I know the way I do things are different than what others have done, I’m used to building things where there’s a lot of assembly and disassembly to get things right. You save a lot of time in the end when you do it this way “mocking-up” at least when you’re building vehicles or prototyping.

Thanks for the concern though I appreciate you trying to help me out.

Dan

[Ntl]

Any one with a Saturn have issues with the Y axis binding? Also what are your maximum rapids for the Y axis? My X will rapid at the advertised 1200 inches per minute but my Y binds and I lose steps. I loosened up the gantry bolts and I can get 1200 in the + direction but anything over 800 is sketchy in the - direction. Also once it’s square and I tighten the bolts back down it binds again in both directions if I go over 750. It seems like the piece of steel they used is tweaked. Maybe the machine just isn’t straight enough to get the advertised speeds. Let me know thanks

[GME]

Any one with a Saturn have issues with the Y axis binding? Also what are your maximum rapids for the Y axis? My X will rapid at the advertised 1200 inches per minute but my Y binds and I lose steps. I loosened up the gantry bolts and I can get 1200 in the + direction but anything over 800 is sketchy in the- direction. Also once it’s square and I tighten the bolts back down it binds again in both dimensions if I go over 750. It seems like the piece of steel they used is tweaked. Maybe the machine just isn’t straight enough to get the advertised speeds. Let me know thanks

If you haven't read through PLJack's build thread, you might want to. It looks like he had issues no one else has experienced. Binding is one of the issues Jack had to deal with. Reading through it might give you some ideas. Here's a link: https://www.cnczone.com/forums/finel...cnc-forum.html

One other thing, FWIW. Despite being advertised at 1200 ipm rapids, I don't believe any of the owners try to run that fast. If memory serves, pretty much everyone sets the top end at 600. Although my present machine (not a Saturn 2) was also advertised at 1200, I never tried to run it that fast. 600 was plenty fast for me. Also, what's your acceleration set at? I believe some have mentioned issues, if set too fast.

To check for binding, you might want to drop your steppers off the racks and see how it feels when you move the gantry the full length.

Gary

[Ntl]

If you haven't read through PLJack's build thread, you might want to. It looks like he had issues no one else has experienced. Binding is one of the issues Jack had to deal with. Reading through it might give you some ideas. Here's a link: https://www.cnczone.com/forums/finel...cnc-forum.html

One other thing, FWIW. Despite being advertised at 1200 ipm rapids, I don't believe any of the owners try to run that fast. If memory serves, pretty much everyone sets the top end at 600. Although my present machine (not a Saturn 2) was also advertised at 1200, I never tried to run it that fast. 600 was plenty fast for me. Also, what's your acceleration set at? I believe some have mentioned issues, if set too fast.

To check for binding, you might want to drop your steppers off the racks and see how it feels when you move the gantry the full length.

Gary

[Ntl]

If you haven't read through PLJack's build thread, you might want to. It looks like he had issues no one else has experienced. Binding is one of the issues Jack had to deal with. Reading through it might give you some ideas. Here's a link: https://www.cnczone.com/forums/finel...cnc-forum.html

One other thing, FWIW. Despite being advertised at 1200 ipm rapids, I don't believe any of the owners try to run that fast. If memory serves, pretty much everyone sets the top end at 600. Although my present machine (not a Saturn 2) was also advertised at 1200, I never tried to run it that fast. 600 was plenty fast for me. Also, what's your acceleration set at? I believe some have mentioned issues, if set too fast.

To check for binding, you might want to drop your steppers off the racks and see how it feels when you move the gantry the full length.

Gary

Thank you.

[GME]

I don't get the point of the video, except to demonstrate that the gantry can move rapidly. Pictures and videos are great, but a brief comment or two is often useful and even necessary, so we know what we are looking at.

[Ntl]

It says in the video description. The video was more for my Centroid thread I have on their forum.

And I was showing you what 1200ipm looks like bud since you said no one is running one at that speed.

Not sure if you forgot what you wrote or maybe you didn’t click on the video so you didn’t see the YouTube description?

Dan

[wmgeorge]

It might run at 1200 but mine is set at 500 Ipm but was at 600. Frankly I value reliability and accuracy more than anything. I love the screen display, something you can read at a distance.

Its kind of like the one I am using for Mach3 that is almost perfect. If I knew how to tweak it, I would.

I don't think its binding, its just the practical, usable limit.

[difalkner]

Not sure if you forgot what you wrote or maybe you didn’t click on the video so you didn’t see the YouTube description?

Dan

You don't see the video description unless you go to YouTube, Dan. If you watch it in the small window in the post the video description doesn't show. Just an FYI...

David

[Reddmann]

Hello, I noticed this thread is currently active is Fine Line automation still in business? I have tried to contact them and have no response.

[wmgeorge]

Hello, I noticed this thread is currently active is Fine Line automation still in business? I have tried to contact them and have no response.

That is to be expected, he does not have a complete office staff to answer phone calls, an email Might get a response. Did you have a question one of us can answer?

[GME]

It says in the video description. The video was more for my Centroid thread I have on their forum.

And I was showing you what 1200ipm looks like bud since you said no one is running one at that speed.

Not sure if you forgot what you wrote or maybe you didn’t click on the video so you didn’t see the YouTube description?

Dan

Nope, I didn't forget what I wrote. Your video does not say anything about running at 1200 ipm, at least not the small screen posted on this forum. Generally, I do not go to YouTube, unless I want to watch a video at full screen. It didn't occur to me to go to YouTube with this one.

Thank you for the demonstration. It confirms that I don't want to run at 1200 ipm, or anywhere close to it. I see no upside to running that fast - only downside.

Gary

[GME]

Hello, I noticed this thread is currently active is Fine Line automation still in business? I have tried to contact them and have no response.

Yes, Fineline is still in business. My Saturn 2 shipped yesterday.

Nate is backed up at the moment. He had some part stuck in customs for over a month, so nothing could ship during that time. Now, he is having to play catch up. Also, Nate has a history of not being the most responsive. In this day and age, it seems crazy, but that's just the way it is.

I haven't had much luck with the phone. Send an email. If nothing in a couple of days, send it again and label it as a second request. If that doesn't produce a reply in a couple more days, send it again as a third request, etc. I usually get a response by the 3rd request. Once I'm able to get a dialog started, he seems to be more responsive.

Gary

[Ntl]

So basically what everyone is saying is it won’t run at the advertised speeds? Who was the guy who got one for plasma cutting, does anyone remember? You need the high speed for that process I’d like to talk to him and see what type of speed he’s achieved with his Saturn.

Thanks,
Dan

[GME]

So basically what everyone is saying is it won’t run at the advertised speeds? Who was the guy who got one for plasma cutting, does anyone remember? You need the high speed for that process I’d like to talk to him and see what type of speed he’s achieved with his Saturn.

Thanks,
Dan

FWIW, the advertised speed is for rapids, not for cutting. The advertised speed for cutting (feedrate) is 500 ipm for NEMA 34, and 250 ipm for Nema 23.

Isn't around 400 ipm about as fast as one needs for plasma to cut thin sheet metal? I've looked at some charts for cutting various metals. 400 ipm is the highest number I've seen. That's well within the advertised spec for NEMA 34.

Gary

[wmgeorge]

Ditto what Gary said. I had a PlasmaCAM for years, it was much lighter and only had to carry the torch. Try adding on a heavy router or spindle and moving at those speeds. I would never try to cut at 500 Ipm, unless its just square panels. The work I do requires accuracy at a reasonable speed.

[Ntl]

FWIW, the advertised speed is for rapids, not for cutting. The advertised speed for cutting (feedrate) is 500 ipm for NEMA 34, and 250 ipm for Nema 23.

Isn't around 400 ipm about as fast as one needs for plasma to cut thin sheet metal? I've looked at some charts for cutting various metals. 400 ipm is the highest number I've seen. That's well within the advertised spec for NEMA 34.

Gary

Nope some plasma cutting requires over 1000ipm and laser cuts even faster. And I understand it’s referring to rapids that’s what I’m testing, if I run a program it binds if I have my rapids set above 750ipm. I’m sorry but 40% less than advertised speeds is bull****. I’ll get it worked out even if I have to replace the gantry.

[Ntl]

Ditto what Gary said. I had a PlasmaCAM for years, it was much lighter and only had to carry the torch. Try adding on a heavy router or spindle and moving at those speeds. I would never try to cut at 500 Ipm, unless its just square panels. The work I do requires accuracy at a reasonable speed.

You had one of the cheapest most light weight plasma tables that existed. Some of the industrial tables have gantrys that weigh over 300lbs and have 2000ipm rapids. And granted most plasma cutting doesn’t require those speeds some does and some guys do it to get jobs done faster, it depends on a lot of variables.

To make it clear for everyone that’s just skimming through my posts, I’m talking about rapids!!! I’m not talking about cutting, you guys do realize that having fast rapid speeds makes a job go faster right??? 40% under advertised is not very good and I’m sure someone is going to debate me on this as well?

Dan

[GME]

Nope some plasma cutting requires over 1000ipm

Just curious, but what would require a 1000 ipm plasma feedrate?

Gary

[GME]

So basically what everyone is saying is it won’t run at the advertised speeds? Who was the guy who got one for plasma cutting, does anyone remember? You need the high speed for that process I’d like to talk to him and see what type of speed he’s achieved with his Saturn.

Thanks,
Dan

Here's a link to the guy with the Saturn plasma. He has the original 80/20 Saturn gantry. https://www.cnczone.com/forums/finel...x4-plasma.html

BTW, I wasn't scanning your posts, and I understood that you were testing rapids. However, some of your comments seemed to be addressing both cutting and rapids. Hence, my reply.

And no, I don't think everyone is saying that the machine won't run at the advertised speed for rapids. What I believe we're saying (at least what I'm saying) is we don't find that kind of speed necessary for our purposes, and we haven't found it necessary to try to run that fast. Clearly, you have other ideas, which is fine. We all have our individual preferences. One person's preference isn't necessarily any better or worse than another's.

It would be helpful for you to communicate all of the things you've done to try to diagnose and correct the "binding" issues you've experienced. It's easier to provide input.

It seems like our offers of help have frustrated you, and the tone of your responses tend to discourage more help. You've already banned Ger21, who is one of our best resources on CNCZone and elsewhere. I know he can be short at times (he's a busy guy), and he's rubbed me the wrong way a time or two. However, I respect his knowledge and willingness to share it. I believe I can safely says that there are a number of others on this and other forums who feel the same way. Also, I hope we all know and appreciate that it's very easy to be taken in ways we never intended, in this sort of environment. No question, you are entitled to cut people out of the discussion, but you risk alienating those who would otherwise be eager to help. Just saying . . . .

Gary