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    Default FLA email broke?

    Hey all. Just wondering what the status of FLA is? I sent a message regarding shipping to Canada about 2 weeks ago via the website and didn't get anything. Sent the same email to an address from the site using my email client last week and still nothing. Just curious if I have the proper address that's on the site.
    Sales@finelineautomation.com

    The email is as follows if someone from FLA happens to read this.
    Thanks in advance.

    Email:

    Hi there. I had sent a message last week through the website but I'm guessing it didn't make it through.
    I'm very interested in your Saturn 2 4x4 model. I have been considering one of the Chinese 1212 ready to go models but I'm still not quite sure how I feel about that. I'm trying to figure out a more accurate price after exchange rate and shipping.

    I see that you have free shipping in the US and thought I'd seen on a forum about free shipping to the Canadian border and then paid from there. I was wondering what that approximate price would be and if you have previous experiences to share that might help?

    I could use my work as a commercial address.


    Peterborough, Ontario
    K9J 5R1
    CANADA

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    Default Re: FLA email broke?

    I got an email from him a couple days ago. He is busy but seems to answer in a couple of days or so. Did you check your Junk mail folder?
    You can see my posts on the machine like you are interested in and I can answer questions except on pricing of course. David purchased a 2x4 foot machine I think about a year ago.

    1000x750 Workbee CNC - Mach4 - PMDX USB - Windows 10 Pro


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    Community Moderator difalkner's Avatar
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    Default Re: FLA email broke?

    Yes sir, it's been two years ago but seems like it was last year. Here's the link to my build if you want to check it out - 2nd Build First

    I got an email from Nate a couple of days ago, as well.

    David

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    Default

    Hmm.... Well if you guys say it's the right email, I'll just see what happens. Looks like a decent machine. The USD to CAD exchange is a bit steep these days so just trying to give myself a close idea of what I'd be getting into by going this route.



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    Default Re: FLA email broke?

    He has a history of being very slow to reply.

    Gerry

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    Default Re: FLA email broke?

    I'm having the same problem. I made an inquiry around Aug. 21. After making a 3rd request, Nate replied on Aug 30 telling me that he would answer my questions that night. On Sept 1, I reminded him that he appeared to have forgotten me and asked for a reply soon. With the holiday, I don't expect to hear anything before Tuesday, if I'm lucky. Kind of sad, considering I already bought one machine from him (a kit), and am now looking to upgrade to a Saturn 2.

    My past experience with customer service was OK, even though Nate had a history back then. Seems like he still does. In any event, I don't recall ever having to wait this long for answers to few straightforward questions.

    Gary




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    Default Re: FLA email broke?

    Maybe a fellow CNC'r can answer the questions I have?

    1. Nate advertises that 4 sensors cover limits and homing for all 3 axes. Am I correct in concluding that there are two sensor blocks on the X axis positioned so they trigger from one sensor, 2 blocks on one side of the Y axis that similarly trigger, and one block on the other side of Y that triggers from a separate sensor? Adding in the Z axis, you would cover all directions of travel plus homing with only 4 sensors?

    2. How far, if at all, does a router bit extend past the front cross brace? I'll be running a 2.2kw spindle. I'm wanting to do some dovetail and tenon work from the front of the machine. If possible, I'd prefer not having to cut a big rectangular hole in my spoilboard between the 1st and 2nd crossmembers.

    3. How adjustable are the limit/homing blocks (front to rear adjustment) for Y axis homing? If they aren't adjustable, how can you square the gantry and still use the sensors to home? I'm not sure that you could reliably home to just 1 sensor. I could be wrong, but I'm under the impression that the 2 steppers on Y don't necessarily turn on and hold at precisely the same position - could be out of sync by a few microsteps to a full step. It could be that the 2 Y racks not being in precise alignment with one another could also be a factor?

    4. What technique does Nate use, or recommend using, for getting the gantry perpendicular to the Y axis? Does he have some trick, or is it just trial and error (e.g., drill 4 holes or route squares, measure diagonals, adjust, repeat; 3 4 5 triangle, measure, adjust, repeat; 5 cut method, adjust, repeat)?

    Thank you for helping out a frustrated prospective Saturn 2 buyer.

    Gary



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    Default Re: FLA email broke?

    Quote Originally Posted by GME View Post
    Maybe a fellow CNC'r can answer the questions I have?

    2. How far, if at all, does a router bit extend past the front cross brace? I'll be running a 2.2kw spindle. I'm wanting to do some dovetail and tenon work from the front of the machine. If possible, I'd prefer not having to cut a big rectangular hole in my spoilboard between the 1st and 2nd crossmembers.

    4. What technique does Nate use, or recommend using, for getting the gantry perpendicular to the Y axis? Does he have some trick, or is it just trial and error (e.g., drill 4 holes or route squares, measure diagonals, adjust, repeat; 3 4 5 triangle, measure, adjust, repeat; 5 cut method, adjust, repeat)?

    Thank you for helping out a frustrated prospective Saturn 2 buyer.

    Gary
    Gary, I assume the Saturn 2 is similar to the early Saturn frame but here's a shot of our 2x4 and how far past the frame and how far below the frame it will go. I took these a long time ago so don't really have measurements but you can see it's enough for cutting dovetails and tenons. Now a lot of this depends on how low or high you mount your spindle, what sort of bracket is holding the spindle, how long your bit is, etc.
    FLA email broke?-164-z-distance-frame-jpg

    FLA email broke?-165-y-distance-past-frame-jpg

    As for getting the gantry square I just went through that. Check Post #20 here - Calibration question. I realize you can square the gantry in some software and using sensors but I'd rather have it mechanically square as close as possible and then do very minor tweaking with software if necessary. Fortunately, I got out dead on mechanically so no tweaking in software.

    David

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    Default Re: FLA email broke?

    Thank you, David. I agree that mechanical squaring is the way to go. Get as close to perfect as you can, then close up the last few thousands to square with sensors, if you have to. I've never tried it with software. I don't recall seeing it documented in Mach4, but then, I wasn't looking for it either. More reading to do.

    Once you add the board to be cut, the mounting board, a backer board and the distance the bit has to move to clear the work piece to start the cut, it looks like there is probably too little distance. Bummer. Too bad you can't turn the gantry around with the gantry supports facing the back. There would be plenty of clearance. Unfortunately, the distance gained on the front end would equal the distance lost on the back end.

    Thanks again,

    Gary




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    Default Re: FLA email broke?

    I have never done dovetails on my cnc router and doubt if I ever will, but the Z carriage router mount goes past the end of the frame a couple inches or so. Why not put install the spoil board so you can use the whole 50 inches of working area and then over perhaps 12 inches 100 mm or so from the front left zero mill out a notch for the edge milling of boards. I would guess a 12 x 2 or whatever is all you need?

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    Default Re: FLA email broke?

    I had the same idea when I set up my spoil board. I ended up making the first section removable so that I could mount boards vertically. I still need to make a fixture for holding the boards square to the spoil board. I also specifically made my frame as tall as was practical to be able to fit the longest board possible. Take a look a post #150 here:

    https://www.cnczone.com/forums/finel...ml#post2116622

    I cut the first layer of spoil board so that it is supported by two cross rails in the frame. The top layer overlaps this for even more support. I then faced the entire top layer to make everything flat.

    My frame surrounds the machine, so the spindle overhang really isn’t enough to machine the end of a board.

    For squaring the gantry, I agree with David...get it right mechanically by adjusting the gantry. I found that the two sensor trick didn’t really work because the gantry is so stiff that the motors fight each other. Mine actually skipped teeth on the rack trying to home. The new Saturn 2 gantry looks easier to adjust than mine was.

    Robert



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    Default Re: FLA email broke?

    Once you add the board to be cut, the mounting board, a backer board and the distance the bit has to move to clear the work piece to start the cut, it looks like there is probably too little distance.
    Yeah, you probably would want 2-1/2" - 3", assuming the vertical jig is only 3/4" thick.

    Gerry

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    Default Re: FLA email broke?

    I did the same thing but have yet to use it.

    FLA email broke?-152-mdf-mounted-plastic-screws-jpg

    David

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    Default Re: FLA email broke?

    Quote Originally Posted by DDgitfiddle View Post
    I had the same idea when I set up my spoil board. I ended up making the first section removable so that I could mount boards vertically. I still need to make a fixture for holding the boards square to the spoil board. I also specifically made my frame as tall as was practical to be able to fit the longest board possible. Take a look a post #150 here:

    https://www.cnczone.com/forums/finel...ml#post2116622
    Thank you, Robert. On my current 80/20 kit machine, I did something similar to what you did in your post. Your setup is more more elegant than mine. I attached a piece of 80/20 to the front of the 2nd cross piece, attached the main board to the cross piece and attached the removable piece to the 80/20 add on. Mine is a lot more fussy to remove and reattach, because I have to line up the drop in nuts every time I want to remove and reattach the removable section. I should have used t-nuts equipped with set screws - the clarity of 20/20 hindsight.

    I came up with a fixture arrangement that may work for you, or give you some ideas. I took 2 pieces of series 15 80/20 1.5" x 4.5" and fastened them together at a right angle. That provides about the same clamping surface as a Leigh D4R dovetail jig. I drilled holes in the slots and used 1/4-20s to fix the assembly to the t-track. You slide the 1/4 into the underside of the 80/20 and use an hex head driver in the through hole to tighten it down. I screw into 1/4-20 t-nuts in the t-track. I put a 1/4" steel dowel in the spindle collet and run it along the extrusion to line it up parallel to the X-axis. You can add 5/16" carriage bolts to the top and front of the 80/20, and put a steel or aluminum bar with holes that line up with the carriage bolts and use that to clamp the boards your are cutting. You can also screw down alignment blocks to the 80/20 to keep your boards to be cut in vertical and horizontal alignment. If you look at how that Leigh jig is set up, you should get the idea. I have a Leigh jig, so I knew the setup would work. This jig makes the drilling the 80/20 much easier:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/80-20-Inc-1...item56881899f6

    Here's a link to the Leigh D4R manual. It has good diagrams and is much better average documentation. It should help it all make a lot more sense.

    https://www.leighjigs.com/wp-content...e-Complete.pdf

    I use a lot of 80/20 and frequently use the jig. I've found it well worth the price. I also have the jig for the Series 10 extrusions.

    I hope this gives you some ideas for your fixture. Sorry, but I had to unlink the links. Google Chrome wouldn't let it post with them intact.

    Thanks again,

    Gary

    Last edited by difalkner; 09-03-2018 at 02:20 PM. Reason: duplicate within post


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    Default Re: FLA email broke?

    Gary,

    Thanks for the ideas. I’ll have to give that some thought. Until now, I’ve been using an Incra fence on my router table to do dovetails and various other methods to do mortises and tenons. I have a project that needs a little of all of those, so I might give the CNC a try. The trick is going to be getting the boards lined up with the machine. I expect that machining the jig in place is going to be the best plan, but I haven’t given that enough thought yet.

    Thanks,
    Robert



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    Default Re: FLA email broke?

    Quote Originally Posted by DDgitfiddle View Post
    The trick is going to be getting the boards lined up with the machine.

    Robert,

    Getting things lined up isn't all that bad and doesn't require machining. Take 2 wooden blocks or pieces of 1/4" aluminum and cut 2 45 degree angles on one end of each to form a point (I use aluminum). Drill holes for 1/4-20 bolts in them, and slide the assemblies into separate t-tracks separated by a couple of feet. The points should face the front. Next, take the 90 degree jig discussed above and place it close to parallel with the X axis at the edge of the opening for cutting. Put a 1/4" metal dowel in the router collet, and lower the router so the pin can make good contact with the jig. Move the X axis so the pin aligns with either the left or right most pointed wood or aluminum piece. Trap the jig between the dowel pin and the pointed piece directly opposite on the other side of the jig. Tighten down the pointed piece. Note that even though the straight edge is trapped at one end, the two contact points are very small, leaving the jig free to rotate to a limited degree front to back. Next, move the router to the other end of the jig, again across from the pointed piece. As before, trap the jig between the dowel and pointed piece. With the two pointed pieces screwed down, you now have 2 points of reference that are parallel to the X axis. At this point, you can move the router out of the way, hold the jig against the two points and screw it down to the t-tracks. Voila! It's ready to go.

    Gary




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    Community Moderator difalkner's Avatar
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    Default Re: FLA email broke?

    Pictures would help, Gary. Sounds like a good solution, though.

    David

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    Default Re: FLA email broke?

    Quote Originally Posted by difalkner View Post
    Pictures would help, Gary. Sounds like a good solution, though.

    David

    Thank you, David. You're right; pictures would certainly help. It's a lot to visualize from a short paragraph. I don't have a dovetail project on tap at the moment, but I mock up the steps with a camera. I'm not set up for video.

    Unfortunately, I'm in the middle of a painting project that is taking most of my time. I'll try to get to the photos in the next few days, though.

    Gary



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    Default Re: FLA email broke?

    Just as an update here, Nate did get back to me and answered a few of my questions. I sent one off today with more questions and once i hear back, it looks like I might be going in the direction of a Saturn 2 4x4. Hope we can keep up the correspondence and get something put together.

    Just as an FYI to any Canadian customers wishing drive down and pick one of these up. I spoke to Canada Customs and they informed me that something like a Saturn CNC machine just falls under regular NAFTA rules. The 25%/10% tariff that was introduced by Canada is mainly geared towards raw and coiled steel and aluminum coming into Canada from the USA for manufacturing purposes, not finished product for personal use. Only thing it would be subject to would be ordinary HST. In Ontario that is 13% but we normally pay that on just about anything.

    Hope that info helps someone else.



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    Default Re: FLA email broke?

    What might help you tax wise is its really not a complete machine until you install the motors, gear drives and electronics package. I looked for a long time before buying the Saturn 2, really not much on the market it that is better for that price range unless you go to the Camaster, and thats another 5 or 6 thousand USD.

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