Build Thread Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23


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Thread: Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

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    Default Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

    Hi there.

    This is a continuation of this thread: saturn 2 4x4 questions
    Thought I would start a build thread.

    First off, as others have said, I am very happy with the build of this machine.

    Here is it's current state:

    Those tan cables are temporary. Decided to go with something else. You can see I already pulled the new cable. (Gray)

    Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23-img_4432-1-jpg
    Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23-img_4433-2-jpg

    And one from before:

    Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23-img_4416-3-jpg

    It's stalled a bit waiting on some parts.I forgot how much work went into getting my desktop CNC up and running.

    Here is what I have so far:
    Controller: Smooth stepper
    BOB: 5 Axis Breakout Board
    but will replace with a C25
    Spindle Driver: WJ200-022SF
    Spindle: Typical "four bearing in" 2.2kw. Seems a little better than most.
    Sensor cables: EVC326 and connector
    Motor Cable: MCTC-18-4S-1
    Computer: Lenovo M93p
    And all the related bit's and bobs. No wonder I have no money!

    That M93p is really working out well so far. If you clean up the OS it performs really well. At least so far.
    Small enough to fit in my controller box. Side note, I like my computers that run moving machines to be dedicated.
    In other words it never goes on the LAN or WAN. If you don't go on a network you don't need to install security updates every boot.
    Just the way I like it.

    I've done some tuning but just enough to give me an idea what I have. No sense in doing all that work until everything is sitting in the controller box.
    With that said, even with a gantry I know I need to square, I'm seeing really nice numbers.
    Last test I had a dial indicator set at zero and with gcode I moved the y axis back 400mm, paused, and then come back. Usually the dial hits within a thou or so.
    I can work with those numbers. Just need to squeeze a little juice to get where I need to be.
    Nice work Nate!!

    Now whether it moved 400mm I don't know. Close enough for now. I tuned it with a 4mm move. That part needs work.

    I did make one massive mistake with this project. I decided to document the process on YouTube.
    Just tripped my work and slowed it down by a factor of 4.
    But, too late now. Might was well follow through. Someone might find it useful.

    The controller box is painted and I hope to be done with wiring in a week,

    That's it for now.
    Later.


    Edit: Did the forum just place an ad in my "dial indicator" text? Sneaky ********.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

    I’ve been moving all the components around in my controller box for a few days now.
    Came to the conclusion that there is not enough room for my VFD.
    I don’t think I want that in my signaling box anyway.

    Is that normal practice? Seems I see that a lot.
    Where are you guys buying those deticated VFD boxes with the disconnect switch?

    Thanks.



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    Default Re: Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

    I've seen it both ways - inside the enclosure and outside. The Hitachi VFD emits very low noise and that's the reason I had no qualms about putting it inside the enclosure. Of all the builds I've seen it's probably 50/50 on being inside the enclosure.

    David

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    Default Re: Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

    Industrial routers always have the VFD in the control box. One larger box makes things simpler.

    Gerry

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    Default Re: Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

    Thanks guys. Good feedback.
    Unfortunately it won’t fit with proper clearance.
    Can’t bring myself to buy one. It’s just a metal box.
    Time to dust off the welder I guess. .



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    Default Re: Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

    When I was getting paid to design and build control panels I never purchased the Hoffman box until I had everything layed out. ,

    1000x750 Workbee CNC - Mach4 - PMDX USB - Windows 10 Pro


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    Default Re: Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

    Starting to work on the controller box.

    Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23-img_4456-s-jpg

    Two questions:

    Fuses.
    I was going to fuse each Gecko drive. But it occurred to me that if one drive pops a fuse I still have the other three energized. That doesn't seem like a good idea.
    Are you fusing so that if one pops they all go down? If so how?

    E-Stop
    I really like having the ability to hit the E-Stop and kill all power to the steppers. Without taking down the controller. Especially if I need to quickly put my fingers near the mechanical drive system. That way Mach3 does not start *****ing about the controller. I see most wire the E-Stop to the AC feeding the DC power supply to the box.
    Does in make sense to have two E-stops? One for stepper DC and one for box AC?

    Thanks.



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    Default Re: Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

    Right or wrong my E-stops drop the relays for control but leave power to the boards so everything stops if the E-stop is hit. When I reset the E-stops the power is restored to the relays and control given back to Mach4 for restarting the cut (at least I think that's how I did it - it's been a while). On the door of the enclosure I have a main STOP button and that kills power to both the 120v and 240v relays powering the entire enclosure. I use that button to turn the machine off.

    David

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    Default Re: Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

    Are you fusing so that if one pops they all go down? If so how?
    That's not what fuses are for. A fuse is to protect wiring from burning up, nothing more.

    Steppers will stop faster on an Estop if they remain powered, as they will stop the motors when the step signals stop.

    Or, rather than cutting power to the drives, just have the Estop disable the drives.

    Gerry

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    Default Re: Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    Steppers will stop faster on an Estop if they remain powered
    Funny, I just stumbled upon that 30 minutes ago while wiring.

    Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23-img_4457-jpg

    I was wondering how to wire up the disable connection on the Gecko drive.
    E-Stop. Got it. Seems it goes to power positive with a resistor and the e-stop in in between.
    Examples I've seen have that power coming from the stepper power supply. Instead of a 5v logic?
    I'll need to look into that.

    Thanks.



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    Default Re: Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

    So, this is fun. I completed the 120v wiring. Yesterday morning powered it up to do a bench test before placing everything in the controller box. Even though I did “double check” everything I had the power rreversed for the ess board.
    Yep! That little mistake cost me $200 and added a week to the process while I wait for a new ess to arrive.

    I guess the lesson there is don’t play with electricity before 9:00am. .



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    Default Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23 - Proximity sensor question

    New ESS arrived and I've started to wrap up the wiring.

    Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23-box1-jpg

    Motors are finished and the machine is moving again!.
    Trying to work our the proximity sensor before I hard wire all four.

    Model: NBN8-12GM50-E0-V1 NPN NO (From FLA)

    From what I am reading:
    Brown is power. In this case 12v.
    Blue is ground.
    Black is signal.

    The black needs a pull up resistor connected to positive.
    I have a C25 BOB. I've been experimenting with a pull up connected to the 5V on the C25.
    I had to drop all the way down to 100oms in order for the signal to register. Seems to me that value should be higher. I was expecting it would work with a 4.7K resistor.

    Should my pull up be coming from the sensor 12v source?
    It's working with the 100ohm->5V and the resistor is not getting warm when sinking to positive but I would like some advice before I commit to wiring.

    Thanks.



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    Default Re: Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23 - Control panel mounted

    Finally have my panel mounted to the platform.

    Here is an image of the proximity, E-stop and RJ45 connectors.

    Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23-img_4468s-jpg

    Those on the top are stepper motor cables.

    Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23-img_4469s-jpg

    To fill in all the DB25 holes in the case I printed some snap in blanks. That white material is simple medical gauze. All I had on hand.

    Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23-img_4470ss-jpg

    Here they are installed.

    Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23-img_4472s-jpg

    And finally the finished product.

    Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23-img_4473s-jpg

    I've done some cable management since then. Including these nifty cable tie transitions that snap to the cable tray.

    Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23-img_4474s-jpg

    I've said it before but I always forget the amount of work it takes to put one of these together. A plug and play solution for $1500 or so is really a good value.
    Too late for that now. Next is to securely mount the CNC to the platform so that I can square the gantry and dial in the motors.
    At the same time I need to start work on the VFD. I have all the cable to run 220v to the CNC and connect the VFD. I made a mistake with the VFD->Spindle cable (no shielding) so I need to order that.

    To that point I'm not sure what to purchase. I think 14 awg 4 conductor with shielding should work. The spindle pulls 8.5 amps. Not sure if that amperage is shared among the three conductors.
    Any opinions?
    The issue is that a 12 awg shielded cable is a bit too big for the spindle connector. Seems 9 or 10 mill is the max it will accept.

    Also any opinion on running the spindle cable through the wire track? My understanding is that if it's properly shielded it should not be an issue. Otherwise I will need to mount the VFD on the wall and run the spindle cable overhead. I've seen that done before.

    So that's where I am now. Really looking forward to throwing some chips. It's been a while.

    Thanks.
    Jack.



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    Default Re: Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

    That's all looking good, Jack. Right or wrong I ran my spindle cable from the control box right along with all the stepper and proximity cables and I haven't noticed any issues.

    David

    David
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    Default Re: Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

    Quote Originally Posted by difalkner View Post
    That's all looking good, Jack. Right or wrong I ran my spindle cable from the control box right along with all the stepper and proximity cables and I haven't noticed any issues.

    David
    Thanks David. If the cable will fit I'm thinking I will try for the rack. I will buy enough so that I can switch over to the ceiling method if need be.

    Do you know off the top of your head the awg of the cable you used?

    Thanks
    Jack.



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    Default Re: Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

    I used 14 and it's way too big. 16 would have been fine. I had difficulty fitting it into the connector, through the fitting on the enclosure, etc. but the only saving grace, besides getting it for a really good price, is that it's still pretty flexible even though it's 14. I don't remember exactly but I think it's about 30 strand. The cable I used is about 1/2" diameter and that's just too large. But it works!

    David

    David
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    Default Re: Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

    Quote Originally Posted by difalkner View Post
    I used 14 and it's way too big. 16 would have been fine. I had difficulty fitting it into the connector, through the fitting on the enclosure, etc. but the only saving grace, besides getting it for a really good price, is that it's still pretty flexible even though it's 14. I don't remember exactly but I think it's about 30 strand. The cable I used is about 1/2" diameter and that's just too large. But it works!

    David
    Thanks David. 14 it is. That gauge, shielded, seems to be the correct diameter for the connector.

    Later.
    Jack.



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    Default Re: Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

    Did you mean to say 16?

    He said 14 is too big.

    Gerry

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    Default Re: Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

    Yes, 14 is too big. Gerry pointed that out to me when I built mine but since I already had the cable I used it. But if I had it to do over, or if this cable fails, I'll go to 16 and never look back.

    David

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    Default Re: Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    Did you mean to say 16?

    He said 14 is too big.
    Yes' 16. Thanks for that.

    I'm thinking I will stick with the same brand as I used for the steppers. Link

    OD is just under 9mm. Should work.

    Thanks,
    Jack



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