Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

[PLJack]

Thanks Gary. I appreciate all the information.
I wont drag this topic on, I will do some testing and get back to you all.

But to answer your question the "hand feel" is perfect before applying finish. When I'm done with the 400 grit it is not possible to feel the difference between wood height or wood type. Super smooth.
It's only after finish that the different woods seem to "swell" for a lack of a better term. I think I went with teak because I read somewhere that its good for purpleheat and has UV protection.

Anyway, I'll try some different finishes and report back.

thanks.
Jack.

[PLJack]

What type of glue are you using? It may just be wood movement.

Actually that happened once. Had be baffled for about 30 minutes.
I did not put much glue on one of the eyes for some reason.

I haven't given much thought to glue really. Currently I have some titebond and gorilla wood glue. The titebond did not dry clear so I stopped using that. Using the gorilla stuff at the moment.

Thanks.
Jack

[PLJack]

This is what I've been using and I haven't noticed that, but I haven't done any inlays yet. Maybe try a small can of it? I like it so far, you put a light coat sand and repeat.

Dan

Definitely will do a test with poly.

Thanks.

Jack

[GME]

Definitely will do a test with poly.

Thanks.

Jack

If you want UV protection (makes sense with purpleheart), consider Spar Polyurethane. I know I said I was't a fan of Minwax products, but their Helmsman line (spar poly) is probably the most readily available. Varthane has one too (my preference), but I've never seen it locally. My local Sherwin Williams carries Helmsman, as does Lowes. Lowes has it in quarts, gallons, and spray cans. Brushing will go on thicker and take fewer coats. Spray takes more coats, but will take less sandpaper work to level out things.

Gary

[wmgeorge]

Nice job.

[PLJack]

OK, version 11. Witch cheaper wood.

I did a good deal of damage during final assembly. Pushed a few inlays in. Including the back. The final version will not have this issue as the inlays will bottom out. But everything I cared about was a success.
First is the major design change, the valley in between the YY's. This allows all "four sides" of the YY to press against the base. Instead of the middle pressing against each other.
This should allow for the YY's to be beveled. In this case I used a bull nose which gave me a sort'a bevel at the top. A bevel would not work if they were touching.
Also allowed me to round the tails. No more infinity issues and chipping.

The result is very little to no gaps showing. Although there is some of what I call the bull nose effect. That odd waviness you can see in the oak eye. I'm sure I can solve that out.
(edit. Just noticed that eye should be maple. ID10T)





Since I blocked the top I could not place the weights in the pocket before gluing the YYs. So I had to go through the bottom. This made the piece thicker and gave me an opportunity (forced me) to place a plaque on the back.
Worked out better in the end I think.



I used Danish oil on this as a test. Because of the inlay damage I can't really tell if the grain swelled. It did give a strange laser etch effect on the back though. More to do with maple than anything I would guess.


Thanks.
Jack.

[ericks]

I like your work!!

[peteeng]

Hi Jack - Re grain raising. Knocking down the grain is traditionally done by wetting the surface, letting the grain stand up then sanding it down. Redo until the grain doesn't stand up anymore. Thats slow. I do it by using white PVA glue as a sealer/sander. I dilute it 1:1 with water or a bit more and apply a coat like shellac. It's just a wash not a coat. It will soak in, dry fast and you can do another coat if dry to the hand. The grain will stand up as usual but it will be glued together so the paper will cut the nibs off. Sand again and usually you won't feel the nibs anymore. You can continue using the diluted PVA and in about 6-10 coats you will get a very nice matt finish that is waterproof and UV resistant. Coating is fast as it dries in under an hour so you can get it done in a day if you like. Once the coat is "level" or choked, I use scotchbrite to knock the coat nibs off. If you use fine paper you can get a very very smooth finish to the hand very quickly. If you want gloss use any gloss finish over the top. PVA is cheap and I've had signs out in the weather for over 1.5 years now with no hint of change. I rag it on vs brush as brush will apply too much. I'm about to experiment with spraying it as well. Other gloss and matt polys etc would have started to fail by now in the Oz sun... Cheers Peter

[PLJack]

Thanks Peter. That is some great information. Makes sense.
I'll use that technique on the next test part.

Jack.

- - - Updated - - -

I like your work!!

Thanks Eric. Hopefully I can make some money at it soon enough.

[pmorton]

PLJack - I have just joined the forum today. I just wanted to say that your YouTube site has been extremely useful to me.
it has helped formulate the direction and build of my machine. I have recieved the Saturn 2 from fineline automation and although I have a few issues, I am overall very pleased with the qualityof the product.

thanks

Paul

[wmgeorge]

PLJack - I have just joined the forum today. I just wanted to say that your YouTube site has been extremely useful to me.
it has helped formulate the direction and build of my machine. I have recieved the Saturn 2 from fineline automation and although I have a few issues, I am overall very pleased with the qualityof the product.

thanks

Paul

Welcome aboard. Glad to see a new user, and that Nate has improved his customer service. My machine has had no issues but a couple of others on here did and you will soon hear from one of them I am sure.

[GME]

PLJack - I have just joined the forum today. I just wanted to say that your YouTube site has been extremely useful to me.
it has helped formulate the direction and build of my machine. I have recieved the Saturn 2 from fineline automation and although I have a few issues, I am overall very pleased with the qualityof the product.

thanks

Paul

Paul,

Why don't you start your own build thread?

Gary

[wmgeorge]

You should be about done with yours now Gary?

[GME]

You should be about done with yours now Gary?

Good morning, Bill,

Just about. I'm working on finishing up the spoilboard. It's the same basic design I used on my first machine, but this time around, it's not going as smoothly. I am making the spoilboard as large as my machine will permit, which maybe turned out to be a mistake. Pushing the envelope on size has introduced an added layer of complication that, on reflection, would have been better avoided. Lesson learned, but I still have to deal with it.

When I first started the setup, I trammed the spindle off of the cross braces. I surfaced the Baltic Birch base layer, and noticed some small ridges, which told me my tram was off a few thousands. That was expected. I trammed it again yesterday and on. Today, I'm installing the t-tracks and 1/2" MDF spacers that go in-between them. Since I'm gluing the MDF to the base layer, it's a time-consuming process. After that, I'll be gluing on the 3/4" MDF top layer, which overlaps the edges of the t-track. Another time-consuming task. I have to go out for glue. It takes a lot of glue; I don't have enough on hand in the shop.

Gary

[PLJack]

PLJack - I have just joined the forum today. I just wanted to say that your YouTube site has been extremely useful to me.
it has helped formulate the direction and build of my machine. I have recieved the Saturn 2 from fineline automation and although I have a few issues, I am overall very pleased with the qualityof the product.
thanks
Paul

That's awesome to hear Paul. Makes all those hours of editing I did worth it. Thanks for that. I've been thinking lately that I should start updating Youtube again.
Yes guys, I still drop in from time to time. Mostly post my CNC stuff on instagram now a days.
Here is a couple latest:
https://www.instagram.com/p/B0Lnik-Axx8/
https://www.instagram.com/p/B1C2bnHA5_A/


Jack

[Ntl]

That's awesome to hear Paul. Makes all those hours of editing I did worth it. Thanks for that. I've been thinking lately that I should start updating Youtube again.
Yes guys, I still drop in from time to time. Mostly post my CNC stuff on instagram now a days.
Here is a couple latest:
https://www.instagram.com/p/B0Lnik-Axx8/
https://www.instagram.com/p/B1C2bnHA5_A/


Jack

Hey Jack I have a question, what kind of material did you use for the photo you routed? Did you just paint it to get the two tone or is it something that is made that way. Also did you use Vectric for the cam? I just got the V10 update that has the photo carve tool paths nice upgrade and I've been working on a project using it. The one you have on IG looks good.

Dan

[PLJack]

Hey Jack I have a question, what kind of material did you use for the photo you routed? Did you just paint it to get the two tone or is it something that is made that way. Also did you use Vectric for the cam? I just got the V10 update that has the photo carve tool paths nice upgrade and I've been working on a project using it. The one you have on IG looks good.
Dan

Hi Dan!
Well, a few things, I spent many months working this stuff out. In this case I used black polystyrene painted white. Mostly because its what I had on hand. Ideally you would want to use white material painted black. This will greatly reduce the number of dots you need to mill to produce an image. Black with white paint means you need to invert the B&W image. Which means you need to mill out the black. White with black paint you can use the image as is and only mill the highlights Vastly reducing the number of dots to mill. I want to say that image I milled had 70,000 dots to mill. 9 hour run I think. Depends on the look you are after. You could mill black on white and not invert and end up with a nice inverted image. Or if you use colors other than black and white you can really do whatever you like and call it abstract. Dots are by far the most time intensive. You can use lines and move along pretty quick.
The software I used is Halftoner. https://jasondorie.com/page_cnc.html Its free and works pretty well. Basic but does work.
Things I learned:
Flatness is key. Dots or lines, if the distance between the bit and the work varies by more than .2mm (about 8 thou) you will ruin the job. I'm surrounded by failed attempts at that image because of that. Mostly because there is a lot of detail in that image. Variations really pop.
Mill your surface before the run. Not the night before. Assuming the surface is wood. You want to run the job before the surface has a chance to dry or absorb moisture and change shape.
Don't clamp if the materiel is thin. It will deform. I used Elmers mounting spray. It sticks but the material can be carefully removed. Don't use the 3M 77 stuff. Trust me. That being said spray the whole surface of the back. Spots with no glue will raise above the 0.2mm limit. Then pound the hell out of it with your palms to adhere the glue to the milling surface.
Use scraps of the same material to do a few small one or two minute tests on different parts of the image before a big run. It will save you lots of time.
If using dots remember not all v-bits have a point. You need a point. I used a 90 degree bit.
If you think your controller enclosure does not have a heat issue you will discover that it does when running a 9 hour dot halftone. Give it a little more air than usual. Lost a job to that as well.

Wow that is a lot of stuff. No wonder I had a hard time at it.
Hope that helps. Reach out if you need more.
Jack.

[GME]

Hi Dan!
Well, a few things, I spent many months working this stuff out. In this case I used black polystyrene painted white. Mostly because its what I had on hand. Ideally you would want to use white material painted black. This will greatly reduce the number of dots you need to mill to produce an image. Black with white paint means you need to invert the B&W image. Which means you need to mill out the black. White with black paint you can use the image as is and only mill the highlights Vastly reducing the number of dots to mill. I want to say that image I milled had 70,000 dots to mill. 9 hour run I think. Depends on the look you are after. You could mill black on white and not invert and end up with a nice inverted image. Or if you use colors other than black and white you can really do whatever you like and call it abstract. Dots are by far the most time intensive. You can use lines and move along pretty quick.
The software I used is Halftoner. https://jasondorie.com/page_cnc.html Its free and works pretty well. Basic but does work.
Things I learned:
Flatness is key. Dots or lines, if the distance between the bit and the work varies by more than .2mm (about 8 thou) you will ruin the job. I'm surrounded by failed attempts at that image because of that. Mostly because there is a lot of detail in that image. Variations really pop.
Mill your surface before the run. Not the night before. Assuming the surface is wood. You want to run the job before the surface has a chance to dry or absorb moisture and change shape.
Don't clamp if the materiel is thin. It will deform. I used Elmers mounting spray. It sticks but the material can be carefully removed. Don't use the 3M 77 stuff. Trust me. That being said spray the whole surface of the back. Spots with no glue will raise above the 0.2mm limit. Then pound the hell out of it with your palms to adhere the glue to the milling surface.
Use scraps of the same material to do a few small one or two minute tests on different parts of the image before a big run. It will save you lots of time.
If using dots remember not all v-bits have a point. You need a point. I used a 90 degree bit.
If you think your controller enclosure does not have a heat issue you will discover that it does when running a 9 hour dot halftone. Give it a little more air than usual. Lost a job to that as well.

Wow that is a lot of stuff. No wonder I had a hard time at it.
Hope that helps. Reach out if you need more.
Jack.

Have you tried the blue tape and super glue mounting trick, Jack? Great holding power, but easy to remove. Here's a video on it:



Here's another from NY CNC cutting aluminum block held in place with blue tape and CA glue. It's impressive.

Gary

[Ntl]

Hi Dan!
Well, a few things, I spent many months working this stuff out. In this case I used black polystyrene painted white. Mostly because its what I had on hand. Ideally you would want to use white material painted black. This will greatly reduce the number of dots you need to mill to produce an image. Black with white paint means you need to invert the B&W image. Which means you need to mill out the black. White with black paint you can use the image as is and only mill the highlights Vastly reducing the number of dots to mill. I want to say that image I milled had 70,000 dots to mill. 9 hour run I think. Depends on the look you are after. You could mill black on white and not invert and end up with a nice inverted image. Or if you use colors other than black and white you can really do whatever you like and call it abstract. Dots are by far the most time intensive. You can use lines and move along pretty quick.
The software I used is Halftoner. https://jasondorie.com/page_cnc.html Its free and works pretty well. Basic but does work.
Things I learned:
Flatness is key. Dots or lines, if the distance between the bit and the work varies by more than .2mm (about 8 thou) you will ruin the job. I'm surrounded by failed attempts at that image because of that. Mostly because there is a lot of detail in that image. Variations really pop.
Mill your surface before the run. Not the night before. Assuming the surface is wood. You want to run the job before the surface has a chance to dry or absorb moisture and change shape.
Don't clamp if the materiel is thin. It will deform. I used Elmers mounting spray. It sticks but the material can be carefully removed. Don't use the 3M 77 stuff. Trust me. That being said spray the whole surface of the back. Spots with no glue will raise above the 0.2mm limit. Then pound the hell out of it with your palms to adhere the glue to the milling surface.
Use scraps of the same material to do a few small one or two minute tests on different parts of the image before a big run. It will save you lots of time.
If using dots remember not all v-bits have a point. You need a point. I used a 90 degree bit.
If you think your controller enclosure does not have a heat issue you will discover that it does when running a 9 hour dot halftone. Give it a little more air than usual. Lost a job to that as well.

Wow that is a lot of stuff. No wonder I had a hard time at it.
Hope that helps. Reach out if you need more.
Jack.

Thank you for all the detailed information Jack! I'm going to try it out soon, had a pipe leak in the wall that I'm dealing with in the garage/home shop. Fun stuff let me tell you. Anyway with any luck I'll have it finished and run the photo carve this weekend.

The Vectric toolpath options are hatch or raster it doesn't do stippling like what you did. The upside is it will be quicker but I'm not sure if it will look as good as what you did. I just don't have the energy right now to learn another software right now. I need to get more proficient with the ones I'm still learning. I'll let you know how it turns out and thanks again for the info.

Dan

[Ntl]

Hey Jack just wanted to let you know I ran a couple different photo carve pieces. I posted them on my thread if you want to check it out. Thanks again for the info and for the inspiration. I just used Vcarve pro since the new update has photo carve tool paths now, it's not halftone, but it still looks good and is much faster to program and run. Let me know what you think of them.

Thanks,
Dan