Build Thread Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23 - Page 4


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Thread: Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

  1. #37
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    Default Re: Motor shielding?

    Quote Originally Posted by PLJack View Post
    That's exactly why I came here to post tonight. My wire arrived today and I got to thinking about the shield.

    What do I do with it at the motor end? I only have four pins. Do I solder the shield to the ground pin? The connector is isolated from the spindle body. (plastic end cap)
    I don't know what bonding is.

    Thanks.
    Yes you have a problem with having the plastic cap, you did well to Ground the Ground wire, and the Shield will be a challenge, but can be done with a 360 degree clip something like this, no you must never solder a shield to terminate it, here are some method's, of how you can connect a Shield correctly

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23-grounding-shields-3-png   Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23-shield-termanation-4-png   Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23-grounding-shields-5-png   Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23-shield-clamp-png  

    Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23-shield-clamp-3-png  
    Mactec54


  2. #38
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    Default Re: Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

    No it can not be just Grounded just through the Frame, it would not be electrical EMC compliant, which is a code requirement in most countries when using a VFD Drive


    Every VFD Drive manufacture goes into great detail of how important it is to Ground the VFD and Motor and termination of the Shields

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23-grounding-shields-1-vfd-jpg   Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23-vfd-shield-grounding-png  
    Last edited by ger21; 08-09-2018 at 07:49 PM.
    Mactec54


  3. #39
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    Default Re: Motor shielding?

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Yes you have a problem with having the plastic cap, you did well to Ground the Ground wire, and the Shield will be a challenge, but can be done with a 360 degree clip something like this, no you must never solder a shield to terminate it, here are some method's, of how you can connect a Shield correctly
    I really like that last solution.(pictures with purple wire.) I can definitely come up with something like that and attach to the steel CNC frame. Or is it spindle? I know , or at least want, the frame grounded as well with a separate grounding wire placed elsewhere. The VFD case attachment should not be an issue as I think I may have to fabricate a metal box so I have some control of how it happens in there.

    Thanks.

    Last edited by PLJack; 08-09-2018 at 12:13 PM.


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    Default Re: Motor shielding?

    Yes your VFD needs to be in a metal box if you can. As far as termination of the shield, you can just rake out the strands on the end twist together and use a crimp lug on the end, sized to fit your screw used for attachment to your ground plane. Your grounding method looks good from what I could see.

    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router


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    Default Re: Motor shielding?

    Quote Originally Posted by PLJack View Post
    I really like that last solution.(pictures with purple wire.) I can definitely come up with something like that and attach to the steel CNC frame. Or is it spindle? I know , or at least want, the frame grounded as well with a separate grounding wire placed elsewhere. The VFD case attachment should not be an issue as I think I may have to fabricate a metal box so I have some control of how it happens in there.

    Thanks.
    Any type of 360 Degree clip like this will work for you, just a tight fit around the Shield, these are available for commercial use, You don't need another Ground wire, you have a good Grounding at your spindle, you just need it Grounded at the VFD Drive end, and the Main input power Ground, there should be only ( 1 ) main Ground Point ( Star Ground ) this can be a Post or a Ground Rail in your cabinet

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23-gounding-post-case-png   Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23-shield-clamp-7-png   Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23-shield-clamp-6-png   Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23-shield-clamp-5-png  

    Mactec54


  6. #42
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    Default Platform Leveling

    Seems I should have done this some time ago but I finally placed the platform in it's final location and used the adjustable feet to lift it off the wheels.
    There was a gap above the platform in the front left corner of the frame that was at least a quarter inch. When I leveled the platform all four comers were sitting tight against the frame.
    At first I thought that was good but that means the frame has been flexing or stressed for a month or so. Hopefully I got away with that.

    You can see that the frame is really only sitting on the very corner of the platform. Also the mounting holes only had air under them. Made the frame a bit too large.

    Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23-img_4497-s-jpg


    I placed two supports on each corner. So there is now about a foot and a half of wood supporting both sides of the frame at each corner.

    Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23-img_4498-s-jpg

    This not only added support but because the wood was tight up against the frame I could tighten the lag screws without racking / warping the frame.

    Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23-img_4499-s-jpg

    Before, during testing I could hear what sounded like the frame racking when bringing the gantry forward. In hindsight it's obvious what was happening. With gaps on the corners and all.
    With it leveled and corner braces installed it's pretty smooth now.
    Hopefully I can start squaring that gantry soon. Today I think I will get back to wiring so that I can bench test the VFD/Spindle.

    Thanks.
    Jack.



  7. #43
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    Default Re: Platform Leveling

    Now you can rest easy that the frame and stand are secure, Jack. Mine hasn't budged in the 18 months or so it's been operational but I do check on it once in a while to make certain screws are tight and nothing has moved. Looking forward to the next step. How will you square the gantry - what procedure?

    David

    David
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  8. #44
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    Default Re: Platform Leveling

    Quote Originally Posted by difalkner View Post
    Now you can rest easy that the frame and stand are secure, Jack. Mine hasn't budged in the 18 months or so it's been operational but I do check on it once in a while to make certain screws are tight and nothing has moved. Looking forward to the next step. How will you square the gantry - what procedure?

    David
    Good question,
    Originally I was going to try the loosen bolts/home trick mentioned Here.
    But I don't see how that tells me the gantry is square.

    I like the flip square solution Here.
    Because I understand it. My desktop CNC had this issue but it was not adjustable. Maybe do both?

    Open for suggestions.
    I'll probably make a video of the process so I would like to pass along good information.

    Once it's square I understand to adjust the right prox sensor. Then turn on the two sensor Y axis homing in Mach3. I have it homing only on the left sensor at the moment.

    BTW: As for the platform, you were right. I need more cross bracing when that gantry is flying back and forth.


    Thanks.
    Jack.



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    Default Re: Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

    My machine is all welded frame and gantry. It sets level on the factory stand but I can only get one bolt in the pre-drilled holds. I put undersized bolts in the holes to Index it. My machine is not level. close, but not on. I used a dial indicator to check a couple of cross supports and for the tramming and in spite of shipping and lack of level it seems to be just fine. I think the machine is fine not bolted down to anything. When someday my 5x8 sheet of MDF comes in, and when the metric machine bolts come in, the proof will be when I do the initial surfacing.

    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router


  10. #46
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    Default Re: Platform Leveling

    Quote Originally Posted by PLJack View Post
    Good question,
    Originally I was going to try the loosen bolts/home trick mentioned Here.
    But I don't see how that tells me the gantry is square.

    I like the flip square solution Here.
    Because I understand it. My desktop CNC had this issue but it was not adjustable. Maybe do both?

    Open for suggestions.
    I'll probably make a video of the process so I would like to pass along good information.

    Once it's square I understand to adjust the right prox sensor. Then turn on the two sensor Y axis homing in Mach3. I have it homing only on the left sensor at the moment.

    BTW: As for the platform, you were right. I need more cross bracing when that gantry is flying back and forth.


    Thanks.
    Jack.
    FWIW, I found that the gantry on my 4x2 Saturn (1?) was way too stiff to use a sensor on each side rail to square up the gantry every time you home it. I tried, but when one motor hit its sensor the other one kept going and ended up skipping teeth on the rack. The adjustment springs were pretty tight, and the sensors were adjusted to trigger pretty close to the same time. The gantry was only out of square by about 0.030". I ended up loosening the bolts that hold the gantry and trying to square it up by trial and error.

    I tested square by having the system drill 4 0.25" holes at 4 corners of a square. I put dowel pins in each hole then used a framing square to measure the diagonals. One pin is pushed into the inside corner of the framing square and the other pin rests along the inside edge. If you make the diagonal distance on the outside of the pins just a little bit shorter than the inside length of the framing square (usually 22 inches), you can use a caliper to measure the difference between the diagonal lengths. Adjust until they are equal, or within acceptable tolerance. I think I managed to get to about 0.010" differences on the diagonals after 4-5 tries.

    In retrospect, maybe the answer is to loosen the gantry bolts then use the dual sensor method to tweak in the adjustment by adjusting the sensors carefully. You will need to tighten the gantry right after you home then test the square and iterate, but with a few careful calculations, you can probably get it dialed in in 2-3 attempts.

    -Robert



  11. #47
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    Default Re: Saturn 2 4x4 - Nema 23

    Where did you get the heat sinks if I may ask?

    Thanks,
    Dan



  12. #48
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    Default Re: Platform Leveling

    Quote Originally Posted by DDgitfiddle View Post
    FWIW, I found that the gantry on my 4x2 Saturn (1?) was way too stiff to use a sensor on each side rail to square up the gantry every time you home it. I tried, but when one motor hit its sensor the other one kept going and ended up skipping teeth on the rack. The adjustment springs were pretty tight, and the sensors were adjusted to trigger pretty close to the same time. The gantry was only out of square by about 0.030". I ended up loosening the bolts that hold the gantry and trying to square it up by trial and error.

    I tested square by having the system drill 4 0.25" holes at 4 corners of a square. I put dowel pins in each hole then used a framing square to measure the diagonals. One pin is pushed into the inside corner of the framing square and the other pin rests along the inside edge. If you make the diagonal distance on the outside of the pins just a little bit shorter than the inside length of the framing square (usually 22 inches), you can use a caliper to measure the difference between the diagonal lengths. Adjust until they are equal, or within acceptable tolerance. I think I managed to get to about 0.010" differences on the diagonals after 4-5 tries.

    In retrospect, maybe the answer is to loosen the gantry bolts then use the dual sensor method to tweak in the adjustment by adjusting the sensors carefully. You will need to tighten the gantry right after you home then test the square and iterate, but with a few careful calculations, you can probably get it dialed in in 2-3 attempts.

    -Robert
    Now there is some useful information. Thanks Robert. I'm getting very close to where squaring the gantry will be possible.

    In retrospect, maybe the answer is to loosen the gantry bolts then use the dual sensor method to tweak in the adjustment by adjusting the sensors carefully
    I've heard that before. The part I don't understand is how adjusting the sensors helps to make the gantry square. I definitely plan to do that once I know it is square. Then turn on the dual sensor Y axis homing.
    That way it will self square each time I home it.

    Thanks.
    Jack.



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