New Saturn 2x4

[Erik F]

Hey guys,
After a long time of going back and forth, I finally dropped some coin on a new 2x4 Saturn. It has been sitting on my garage floor for about 2 months, since I haven't had time to build a table yet. I wanted to say hello to everyone. I wanted to say thank you to David F for all his great videos, they are really some of the only documentation on seeing the Saturn Series in action. The machine is a beast and I would suggest for anyone thinking about getting one to go hunt for a coupon and buy the engine hoist from HF Tools. I was able to get the one ton version for $99 with the coupon. We would have been totally screwed with out it. I have had a few issues that I am working with Nate on resolving. One of which is a grease fitting on one of the bearing blocks was loose and after trying to use it just pulled out. Nate is sending me a replacement block at no charge (thanks Nate). I am wondering how some of you are greasing some of the spots on the machine...it seems like some of the fittings are darn near impossible to get to...and now I'm worried about being to hard on them and having them pull out. I would guess it shouldn't be a huge operational issue not having the fitting as long as there is a good way to get grease into the bearing (any suggestions would be great) . The table I have planned will be done out of 2x4, but I'm almost wondering if just getting the pre-made steel table from Nate would be a better option. The upside to 2x4 table is it would only cost me about $100 vs the steel table being $650. As far as control I am running an Arduino based controller feeding Leadshine 542 drivers. I was using GRBL for firmware on the Arduino, but have been using ESTLCAM's controller and firmware to run the Arduino with good success. Using this set up allowed me to get up and running for as little $$$ as possible and is working well as far as my tests have gone...(yes the machine is sitting on the pallet all wired up and able to run If anyone has any suggestions for me or would like any input on my Arduino set up I'm happy to see how I can help. Thanks!

Erik

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[difalkner]

Thanks for the mention, Erik! Making videos is really a lot of fun so I'm glad you have gotten some good out of them. Some of the grease fittings are a bit tight to access but I've gotten good results by just holding the hose end tightly to the grease fitting. And I'm using Royal Purple #2 grease - seems to be working just fine.

Also, I have no complaints from the 2x4 frame I built for our machine. It gives a tiny bit in the Y direction with rapid moves and stops but I don't think that affects accuracy on the machine because the Saturn frame to spindle relationship doesn't change. I could add another couple of diagonal braces to lock it down tighter but that would limit my access to storing things under the CNC and I need all the space I can get in our small area.

Post some photos when you get time, even down on the pallet. We like pictures!

David

[Erik F]

Its taken me a while, but here is a pic...its not much but getting there. Electronics are still a bit of a mess, but running the Arduino as my controller with 4 outboard drivers. I have actually not been using GRBL, but have been running EstlCAM as my controller with good success so far. I have noticed my gantry doesn't hit the bump stops at the same time...so either the frame is out of square or my gantry is out of square...I with it was neither, but I guess the hope would be the gantry since the frame isn't adjustable.

[difalkner]

Glad to see it arrived and is getting set up, Erik! I know you're excited to have it and to get started down the path of building. The gantry didn't touch both of our bumpers, either. But everything on the gantry checked out to be square and I resolved it was the frame out a tiny bit, so I just put a washer behind one bumper and that was just right to make them touch at the same time.

David

[Erik F]

Thanks David. Good to know you saw similar issues. Did it bother you that your frame was out? I suppose as long as it cutting square it's not a big deal. If the frame is out a little I suppose I will just have to get over it... I am going to attach the spoil board today and cut a few squares to see what's up... hopefully all is square and I can just get going. The plan is to use the CNC to help me build the rest of what I need to finish.

Glad to see it arrived and is getting set up, Erik! I know you're excited to have it and to get started down the path of building. The gantry didn't touch both of our bumpers, either. But everything on the gantry checked out to be square and I resolved it was the frame out a tiny bit, so I just put a washer behind one bumper and that was just right to make them touch at the same time.

David

[difalkner]

Did it bother you that your frame was out?

Yes, I got with Nate on it and he mentioned modifying the fixture that holds the frame while it's being welded. In reality it doesn't matter except to my OCD nature.

David

[ger21]

The only thing that really matters is that the rails are parallel.

[Erik F]

The only thing that really matters is that the rails are parallel.

Seems like I might be out of square by about 1/16th. Made my spoil one of my spoil boards and measured the recess holes corner to corner. Just was a quick measurement. But did it a couple times with the same result. Also tried a different set of holes that would make a smaller square. Weird thing was it was still out basically a 1/16th...I would have thought the smaller the square the smaller the error, but it was only a difference of about a foot smaller square. Not really looking forward to having to square this thing up, but I will do some more tests since it was pretty quick and dirty measurements.

[difalkner]

Erik, are your steppers dialed in correctly? I just had to redo mine because I didn't do it right the first time and now it is very accurate.

David

[beltramidave]

Erik, are your steppers dialed in correctly? I just had to redo mine because I didn't do it right the first time and now it is very accurate.

David

What did you do differently this time, David? I haven't checked mine lately, but haven't had any real reason to...

Dave

[Erik F]

Hi David...I think my math is good. Now that I have at least a temporary spoil board down I can do some better tests and measurements. I am using nema 23s with Nate's stand set up. Running 10x micro stepping. 1" pinion= 3.1415" per rotation with 3:1 reduction= 3.1415/3=1.04716. 1.04716x25.4= 26.59803mm per rotation (of the stepper). 26.598033/2000 steps = 0.013299 mm per step.
I ran out of time today to really dig in but hopefully I am wrong and the machine is square. This holes are 3" on center and 1" in diameter...so I will see how close they are...but the few I was able to measure quickly were promising. Thanks everyones input
Went back out after I wrote this for some late night obsessing and came up with basically the same thing I saw before. About 1/16th out at my longest corner to corner recesses. See the pics. One is about 1/32 over 46 and the other is about 1/32 under.

Erik, are your steppers dialed in correctly? I just had to redo mine because I didn't do it right the first time and now it is very accurate.

David

[Erik F]

The error does get smaller as I shrink the measurement square...so at least I know I can still halfway measure.

[difalkner]

What did you do differently this time, David? I haven't checked mine lately, but haven't had any real reason to...

Dave

When I set it up before I did the calibration for some 2" and 3" square pockets and got it to a 3 or 4 thousandths on the 2", a little more on the 3", and called it good. However, I had to cut a dimensioned piece about 16" diameter and it came out 16 1/8" or just a tad over. So I went back to the wizard for stepper calibration in Mach4 and cut some small pockets 48" apart on the Y and 24" on the X and then measured the distance between the pockets. Turned out that my 48" cut was about 3/16" over and X was almost the same. Once I calibrated to the greater distances of 48" and 24" and then went back to check some 2" and 3" square pockets I found the smaller pockets to be as dead on as I can get.

So I would say it was a learning curve on the initial setup. I just didn't do a thorough job the first time but doing signs and plaques and the like it never presented a problem. But when I had to do a dimensioned piece the error was too great and had to be corrected.

David

[difalkner]

Hi David...I think my math is good. Now that I have at least a temporary spoil board down I can do some better tests and measurements. I am using nema 23s with Nate's stand set up. Running 10x micro stepping. 1" pinion= 3.1415" per rotation with 3:1 reduction= 3.1415/3=1.04716. 1.04716x25.4= 26.59803mm per rotation (of the stepper). 26.598033/2000 steps = 0.013299 mm per step.
I ran out of time today to really dig in but hopefully I am wrong and the machine is square. This holes are 3" on center and 1" in diameter...so I will see how close they are...but the few I was able to measure quickly were promising. Thanks everyones input
Went back out after I wrote this for some late night obsessing and came up with basically the same thing I saw before. About 1/16th out at my longest corner to corner recesses. See the pics. One is about 1/32 over 46 and the other is about 1/32 under.

Using the math is a good starting point but as Nate pointed out, belt tension, tooth engagement, actual true gear diameter, etc. all have an effect on the calibration. I used the wizard in Mach4 to calibrate the steppers. The numbers are different than the math but the accuracy results are very good on the machine.

David

[Erik F]

Agreed. Definitely need to spend more time getting it dialed in. My main concern right now is seeing if I need to square the gantry. I know some people use the homing process and offsets to help square up the gantry, but I don't think I have that option with the software I am using. Also I don't have any limit switches installed yet. A bit more time and testing will let me know what I need to do next. I did notice the threaded holes for the spoil board lines up only on half. Now I will have to double check if my distances are off or if it is the holes aren't spaced correctly.

[Erik F]

thank you for your input David. Its been the slow boat getting this thing up and running. Full time job, two kids and blah blah blah keeps the machine pretty idle. I did do a little cutting and looks like I'm off by about 1/2% based on some 5" squares I cut...I am going to change my distance per rotation in EstlCam (which I am also using as my controller) and hopefully be able to get this thing pretty dialed in. Without having time to cut...its almost impossible to move forward. 5" squares were coming out 4.972"...these were cut at the far end of the table away from the origin. I figured that should give me the largest error. My 1/4" bit actually measured .253" so I added .006" back into the 5" square measurements, bringing me to 4.978". I rounded up to 4.98". 5 / 4.98= 1.004. Estlcam using distance per revolution. So I multiplied my current setting by 1.004". So hopefully this will get me quite a bit closer.